Layering question

[Sven Klingemann]

Hi,
this may seem obvious to a lot of you, but
I am still a bit unsure about the “correct” layering of windshirt, rain jacket and (synthetic) down jacket. I guess it depends on the weather conditions and whether you take all three garments. Any advice or real-life experiences you could share?
Best,
Sven

[Drowned Lemming]

My preferred layering:

Windshirt over a wool base layer: normal combination for almost all of the time. In winter, maybe add a thin fleece (Patagonia R.5 thickness).

Waterproofs: When the windshirt can’t cope any more (and a pertex shell is surprisingly rain resistant). Normally pull thin waterproof straight on top of windproof (Montane 180 smock). If really extensive heavy rain is expected, I use a heavier waterproof (Montane G Force smock), and would normally take windshirt off first, to avoid overheating.

Insulating layer: Only used when not moving, pulled on over whatever else I’m wearing. Synthetic fill for most of the year, down when below freezing.

[Dale Wambaugh]

How do you layer bottoms?

Great information too.

After the Big Three, clothing is one of the mysteries of UL hiking that has a huge impact on pack weight– and expense. Getting rid of uneeded extras and lightening things like a cook kit seem simple to me, but clothing has so many variables in personal physiology and environmental factors, and the product offerings are endless. And clothing is the core of surviving when the weather turns the wrong way, let alone having a good comfortable hike.

It would be great to see a manufacturer put together an ultralight suite of clothing with precipatation recommendations and temperature ratings like those for sleeping bags. I do understand what a slippery slope that is too.

[Drowned Lemming]

For legs, I normally do not bother.

In good weather (we do sometimes get some in Scotland) shorts and a pair of stretchy tights for when the weather changes (Montane Soft-Tech are good). I’ve tried pertex trousers, but find that these get shredded on the first outing.

In winter, either the Soft-Techs, or a pair of stretch-woven trousers. Schoeller fabrics are expensive, but seem worth the money. In extreme conditions I may add pair of long underwear, but this is rare.

These withstand most weather. I carry a pair of paclite overtrousers for really extended foul weather (the lightest I could find with zips, as I can’t be bothered to remove boots to put on overtrousers), but have hardly ever needed to wear them.

[Frank Ramos]

For mild conditions, we really need very little clothing to survive, provided we are protected from wind and rain. It is quite possible to walk around naked or even sleep naked 32°F, for example. I won’t say this is comfortable, but it is doable. Again, this is provided we are protected from wind and rain.

A simple waterproof rain suit will protect from both wind and rain, as long as the rain suit doesn’t touch the skin. If the rain suit does touch the skin, then it is as though you weren’t wearing a rain suit. To push the rain suit away from the skin, use dry clothing, since wet clothing is worse than useless. In practice, it can be difficult to keep clothing dry, so the best choice is something that absorbs just a small amount of water. Polypro fishnet is best, followed by polyester, followed by nylon, silk and wool. Wool absorbs huge amounts of water, but dries from the inside out (because the structure doesn’t collapse when wet) and thus is an okay solution. Silk and nylon absorb considerable water for their weight, but because these fabrics can be made very thin, the amount of water absorbed in practice is not all that bad.

I prefer nylon because it is so durable and easy to clean. Thus my clothing system consists of a thin layer of supplex nylon under a Goretex rain layer, plus an insulated vest and bomber hat. If you are warm-blooded, then the vest and bomber hat may not be necessary. This is plenty enough for temperatures down to freezing, as long as you keep moving. In the mornings, it is normal to feel chilly with this amount of clothing at near-freezing temperatures. Once you get warmed up, the chilliness passes.

An alternative solution is to just pile on the fleece, with a thin wind-breaker on top. This is the so-called soft-shell solution. I find this solution to be much heavier than the goretex solution, especially when wet. But it will work. This is basically the solution used by the mammals which have fur.

Most people wear way too much clothing, which is why the Goretex solution doesn’t work properly for them. In particular, tight-fitting base layers are usually way too warm for temperatures above freezing. I personally have many times stripped naked (other than for short pants) while walking uphill in near-freezing drizzle, and yet I was still perspiring! And I am not particularly warm-blooded. Construction and other outdoor workers routinely work in t-shirts when it is near freezing. Cross-country skiers wear next to nothing while exerting themselves in 10°F weather. So don’t overestimate your need for insulation. Also, don’t underestimate how wet insulation is far worse than no insulation in cold conditions. If your clothing ever gets wet when it is cold, take the clothing off and go naked.

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