Montbell down Inner vs. Marmot Zeus

In my book there is no contest – Zeus weighs twice as much as the MB UL Down Inner (14oz vs. 7.3oz) . You can also find the updated 2009 Down Inner model for $120 shipped. So with either paying taxes or shipping (or both) at REI the New MB is also cheaper.

In case you want the $120 2009 MB UL Down Inner –
Backcountry.com Code: 4L0-1-M8Z8P Good until 10/27/09

I have the Zeus jacket and its just sooooo warm. Unless its below freezing out, your going to be sweating in it. And besides, it is double the weight

These are VERY different jackets. I'd only bring the Marmot Zeus for backpacking if there was a solid layer of snow on the ground. The Monbell Inner however is a replacement for a fleece and a good summer backpacking piece.

Garry,

These two jackets differ in numerous ways. I added the Patagonia Down Sweater to the comparison because that has historically been the Marmot Zeus’s primary competitor. I also added the MB Light Down Jacket because it is the MB product with the closest equivalent warmth (Light Down is warmer).

Cost
Patagonia Down Sweater $200 retail
MB Light Down retail $160 ($128 sale – JB Info)
Marmot Zeus retail $150 ($114 sale)
MB UL retail $150 ($120 sale)

Fill Weight (Primary Determinant of Warmth – 3oz = ~30F inactive)
MB UL Inner = 2 oz
Patagonia Down Sweater = 3 oz
Marmot Zeus = 3.5 oz
MB Light Down = 4 oz

Garment Weight and (Fabric Type) – Fabric is the Primary Determinant of Weight and Durability
MB UL Inner = 7.3 oz (15 denier ballistic nylon)
MB Light Down = 11.5 oz (30 denier ballistic nylon)
Patagonia Down Sweater = 12.4 oz (22 denier polyester)
Marmot Zeus = 14 oz (22 & 40 denier polyester)

The down filling only accounts for ~30% of a garment’s weight. If two garments have comparable fill, the nylon shelled (ballistic is the strongest but has a decidedly synthetic look and feel) one is always the better UL backpacking choice. Both virgin and recycled polyester fabrics have the same characteristics. Compared to nylon they are much cheaper, heavier, less abrasion resistant, and have less strength.

You said, “Any suggestions on which one to buy?”

It depends on your primary objective. If it is “warmth versus cost”, then the Marmot Zeus is the best alternative. If like most UL backpackers, it is “warmth versus weight”, then either the MB UL Inner (~40F min) or Light Down (~30F min) is your best alternative.

Just to fan the flames the MB Alpine Light Down Jacket which Richard is referring to can be had for $128 at backcountry.com using the previously mentioned code.

okay so I am going with the Montbell UL. But what size? Since I can't try it on I need some help. I have a 46" chest and I am 6'2" tall. Will an XL work?

Gary – I'm 6'1" 46" Chest Wear MB XL across the board. It's a pretty nice fit for me. Not tight, just enough room IMHO not to feel over sized. Fits well under all my XL winter shells. When you get one please post your thoughts.

Richard – Thanks to you sir for all your technical expertise that is shared so often on this forum. I am always glad to see you post in a thread.

Cheers!

I am 6' 2" with 44 inch chest and the down XL UL fits fine but they changed the sizing a bit last year.

If you are really concerned about fit, they sell the MB UL jackets at DownWorks in Santa Cruz,CA and Prolite on the web sells them and has a good return policy when the item is returned unused.

Note that the MB UL down has no zippers or drawstrings and MB claims it is designed to be worn under a shell. On cold summer nights, I have found it works just fine to throw it on after dinner by itself and wear it in my bag. In the spring or fall shoulder season, I might put my wind shell on over it.

Garry,

I am 5'11" with a 44 inch chest. The large fits me perfect although the specifications for the large says 43" max. They factored in space for layering in addition beyond just a base layer. The XL is spec'ed to 47", it should fit you fine.

Would you call that a quick and reasonable consensus?

"Note that the MB UL down has no zippers or drawstrings"

This is no longer the case. Montbell updated the U.L. Down Inner about 2 months ago so there is now an adjustable cinch cord in the waist hem. The parka version now has an adjustable hood hem as well.

Only the really old versions of the UL down had no zippers. For a couple years now they've had a main zipper (instead of snaps). The pockets still do not have zips, which is a good weight saving decision IMO.

thanks for all the insight. I will buy an XL and tell you what I think when it comes. I am going to get it from Backcountry on their 20% sale.

Thanks to all!

Any suggestions for me? I live in Oregon so I will be using it during my hikes abd backpacking trip. This winter, I am going to canada where it gets below freezing so I will be using it as a mid layer to replace my sweater or hard shell. Do you guys have any suggestions? I like how extremely light the MB XL down is but will it be warm enough?

Noel,

The MB XL Down is the same warmth as MB UL Down. The MB UL Down is shown in a chart I created about 8 months ago entitled, A New Paradigm for Understanding Garment Warmth .

To answer your two questions: the XL is warmer than the Polartec 300 fleece and so it will easily replace your sweater; but it is not durable enough to replace your hard shell. For inactivity below freezing, the MB Light Down Parka would be the lightest option that I would consider appropriate for your vaguely described Oregon and Canada winter environments.

I have both of these jackets. The MB Inner Jacket is very light weight (8 oz for the large), but not well suited to cold winter conditions. It will get you comfortably down to freezing, but not much lower. Think of it as a puffy sweater. Pockets have no zippers, and waist hem has no drawstring to block drafts in windy conditions. The MB Inner runs a bit snug through the chest. So if you normally wear a large jacket, you might consider an extra large in this jacket.

The Marmot Zeus is a cold weather layer with more fill and loft. It weighs about 15 oz (large). Even so, it will fit comfortably under a loose fitting rain or wind shell. I find it comfortably warm even in sub-zero temps. It features a bungee cord waist drawstring, zippered pockets, and unsecured inside pockets useful for small items. Fit seems true to size.

Neither of these jackets have a "trim" fit. Both are constructed of very light weight fabrics that need the protection of a more durable outer shell to prevent snagging and tearing on sharp rock or brush. Neither are water proof and, as with all down garments, both must be kept bone dry to maintain loft and warmth.

Bottom line: For cold nights in the spring and fall days and at high elevations in summer, the MB Inner Jacket is a great ultra light insulating layer and fits comfortably under a light weight shell. For winter conditions with temps from -10F to +20F, the Zeus is a good choice with or without a shell.