Frameless Pack for Women

I would like to see a pack for women, with the same volume as the male counter part. I take offense, that a female pack has reduced volume. I carry just as much stuff as a male. I have to compromise comfort for volume.

I carry my stuff differently. I think female packs should factor in the fact I carry heavier items lower (at my lumbar area). Not higher (at shoulder level)as men would.

Then there is the female breast factor. Yes shoulder straps designed for women are helpful.

When I find a pack that has all those points well thought out, you will make me one happy lady!

Thanks for asking.

I probably should disqualify myself here, because I cannot carry a frameless pack. Even my day pack has a frame and a hip belt. My shoulders are quite sensitive. If my total pack weight is over 10 lbs., I need load lifters to keep all the pressure off the tops of my shoulders. Interestingly, although they of course don't have arthritis, my 7 and 9 year old grandkids have the same issues–for them, even a 5-lb. load without load lifters hurts. If it weren't for that, I'd have bought your kids' Prophet for them.

There are some general issues with packs for women that I hope you'll take note of:

I concur with Lynda that we women need to carry as much bulk as men do, especially when going solo. In fact, we may need to carry more–see the accompanying thread on "Tips/gear for women" which points out that we women generally need to carry more insulation layers. Many of us do not have significant others who are willing to carry part of our gear!

Here's what I'd like to see in a woman's pack (again, echoing Lynda): Narrower shoulders (not necessarily the straps but the way they are attached to the pack), but not so narrow at the top that the straps cut into the neck. Straps configured not to put pressure on the br**sts. (Good grief–BPL considers this profanity? A woman can have one breast but she can't have two?) Center of gravity of the pack lower, because a woman's center of gravity is lower than a man's. Room for a bear canister packed horizontally. A vertical bear canister is hard to pack other stuff around and raises the center of gravity too much.

I have a friend, quite petite, who tried every woman-specific pack on the market. There was not one which would carry a bear canister horizontally. She is too petite to wear a unisex pack. She ended up making her own pack.

Most women have their greatest strength in their lower bodies, while most men have their greatest strength in their shoulders. For many women, this definitely limits the weight that can be carried in a frameless pack.

I hope this helps!

It seems that there are two types of women hikers, there are outdoors women like Lynda and Mary who genuinely love to hike, even solo, and then there are women who are being dragged into the outdoors by their men :)

My wife enjoys hiking, but she does tend to fall more into the latter category. She likes hiking when we do it, but if I wasn't into it then she would be fine with not ever going.

Where am I going with this? My point is that women like Lynda and Mary may need a pack as large (or even larger) then men, but women like my wife likely do not. Even a 2600" pack (Wmn's GoLite Jam) is plenty large for my wife because I normally carry all the shared gear and the bulk of the food. When I plan a trip with my wife, it's all about making sure she has a good time, so of course I carry the bulk of the gear.

Anyways, all I'm trying to say is that a 3600" pack would be too large for my wife, and probably for a lot of other women who are just doing weekend hikes and/or hiking with their man. Something in the 2000-2400" range would be good for a lot of women like this I think. Perhaps you can take what you learn about strap design etc and apply it to two packs?

On another note, think carefully about the sternum strap because this is something that my wife often finds annoying. You don't want this strap squishing/chaffing/pulling etc on their br*sts as it often seems to do. I think you'd probably want this strap to go above the breast, or if it is going to go over them then perhaps make it wider or something so it doesn't dig in as much.

Shorter torso options. I use a Golite Pinnacle right now..a bit long in the torso for me but I've gotten used to packs too long. I do like frameless packs because I can create my own amount of padding for the back. Most packs start at 15" and many women are smaller than that.

Narrow shoulder straps for sure and please, no pink or purple pack colors.

My lovely wife spent over a year looking at lightweight packs. I think she must have tried on every pack on the market at the time (2006-07.) The ULA packs, SMD, Golite, Gossamer Gear — basically anything we could find at Trail Days and good outfitters like Mt Rogers Outfitter in Damascus. (We couldn't find MLD packs to try.)

In every case, the shoulder suspension was the problem. The straps were far too wide, and hit her in the neck while also coming off her shoulder. They were also straight, and thus dug into both her chest and her underarm. None of the packs offered a torso short enough for her frame (she fits perfectly into a Small Gregory pack.)

She ended up with an Osprey Ariel 55, which we purchased in Durango while on vacation. Yes, the Ariel is hardly a UL or even a light pack (it's about 60 ounces.) But the suspension is perfect. The shoulder straps are narrow, and heavily curved to wrap perfectly around the female anatomy. Somebody at Osprey gets it.

My recommendation is to take a good look at the Osprey women's shoulder straps, and pay attention to torso length.

EDIT: Talking with my wife and daughter, I need to add some hip belt notes. The hip belt needs to be flexible or canted to wrap over/around female hips — a giant padded belt (a la Granite Gear) doesn't work at all for them. Also, on most hip belts, the padded part meets in the middle long before the belt is tight enough.

So, a well-designed hip belt, available in different sizes with a very short option, that wraps carefully around the hips.

I like the shoulder straps about 1 1/2 to 2 inches wide, lightly padded and curved to fit under the arm, so as not rub; adjustable sternum strap for the perfect position; lightly padded hip belt. It would be nice to be able to pull the strap forward on the hip belt instead of towards the back, as this is much easier. Volume can be kinda tricky. I can use a 2000 ci pack for mild weather, but need about 3000 for colder weather. I rotate several packs: Gossamer Gear Mariposa, ULA AMP, and an old, no longer made Mountainsmith womens Muse. So, I guess the perfect womens pack for me would be a combination of all three: Lightweight, decent volume, a few pockets, adequate padding, some kind of light-weight stays or light framesheet to help with weight transfer. Not needed: top lids, anything that just adds weight without much function, nice neutral colors (sometimes I need to stealth camp). It is nice of you to ask; more companies should ask their potential customers what they really want and need. Sometimes I wonder if the gear manufacturers have ever even went backpacking. Again, thank you for asking.

I have two packs, Osprey Talon 33 for hiking and Golite Pinnacle for climbing.

Pinnacle, while larger volume and less weight, is noticeably less comfortable when fully loaded to about 20-25 pounds.

My Osprey fits and feels awesome, even though it's slightly heavier (my maximum load is about 15 pounds). The shoulder straps fit great as they don't cut into your boobs, which is important! you can also adjust the frame to your to fit your height – up or down. it definitely has some "bells and whistles" to be considered ultralight, but i like it and i usually modify things to my liking anyways. I removed a couple of redundant pockets, strapping material, etc.

The only drawback of this pack is its small volume, so i modified it a bit to add a shock cord on top so i can just fit any item on top of the lid. For instance, if i put my sleeping bag on top, the pack becomes extremely spacious and easier to pack. Osprey also makes Exos which i understand is pretty similar, but larger volume.

to add, i'm a small frame, 115 pound person

Ron, this gives me hope we might find a pack for my wife. She currently totes an REI Aries pack w/ a plastic framesheet and some aluminum stays. Weigh 3lb10oz, not the heaviest. Of course it was not designed by REI w/ more than a weekend in mind. She's used it for 6 day runs. Strap placement (no rubbing on neck) and sternum strap (mammary glands) placement are crucial. Load lifters are nice.(I know your other packs don't have them though.) A hipbelt w/o excessive padding. Hipbelt pockets of course. Volume closer to the men's version is a nice thought. Probably the most important thing: TORSO LENGTH. Golite claims the pinnacle is good down to 15" torsos. NO WAY. This thing just slumped over and wouldn't transfer weight even w/ tent pole virtual frame and multiple mattress configurations. I would say the "sweet spot" of the female backpack sizing is somewhere in the 14-16" range. Remember, men buy their women packs and want to pass on the successful traits of their own packs to their ladies. Also, keep the good ol MLD muted colors. Thanks.

When shopping for my girlfriend she had the same problems that Ken mentioned. The straps were so wide that they cut into her neck and rubbed against her upper arms.

I don't know if it was the width of the straps or the attachment points. I'm not intimately familiar with the physics of carrying, but the straps on the packs she tried (ULA, SMD) attached to closely to the pack center line. I felt if they were shifted away from the center an inch for each strap that her neck wouldn't be pinched any more. This, combined with a slightly less curved strap might have fixed the problem. Again, I have no idea if these changes would actually work!

The torso length would also be an important thing to fix. Can't wait for this pack! She's been holding out and I think this would be perfect. I've been bragging about my Exodus and I think it's getting to her! Think it'll be out by next season?

Excuse me, Lucas, but

"Remember, men buy their women packs" is a rather a Chauvinistic remark, in my opinion.

no offense but consider if i wrote the following …

"Ron, remember, women buy their men packs. I know this based exclusively from my personal experience. In my family the husband is more into fishing. Sometimes i wonder if he'd rather fish than come on hikes with me. I like to pass on successful traits of my own pack to my man, however we still ended up with different pack manufacturers – go figure. "

poor Ron is totally confused by now. So who is making the purchasing decision? The she-hiker or the she-wife-who-likes-to-please-her-husband-and-go-hiking-with-him-as-long-as-he-buys-her-gear?

a marketing dilemma…

no offense taken. i watch a lot of Madmen.

ok… I'm 5'10, 210 strong and curvy.

I currently use an Osprey Ariel 65. I love the detachable hipbelt comfortably cushioned. But it is heavy.

My issues, my clavicle bones seem to stick out further than other women. Not bony and looking bad. But just enough for the straps, even using the adjustments, to press on them causing bruising. I've resorted to cutting a seatbelt pad in half (horizontally creating 2 pads) and layering with another wool seatbelt cover, stitching together, added velcro and using as extra padding on the straps. I am able to slide them right where the contact point is. This has help some, but still tender after a long hike. EXTRA padding in the straps as an option would be nice.

Also I agree with the others… being able to purchase a different hipbelt size would help. I would need a larger one than most women.

I'm in search for a UL pack (with or without stays option) for my multi-day trips, carrying more weight. I would like minimum 4000 cubic inches along with outer pocket/areas. considering the mariposa plus now.

I'll agree with some others observations, though like Mary I have yet to find a frameless pack that can carry enough volume comfortably. Take a good look at the Osprey line of packs. Most of the women I have talked to that have worn them find them to be worth the extra weight! Whatever you do, the pack needs to be able to transfer the weight off the shoulders and onto the hips IMHO.

Thank you so much for asking for input on a women's backpack. I have spent the last month searching in vain for a new frameless pack. At 4'8" and 115 lb. it has so far been impossible to find a pack to fit. I currently (and very successfully) use an old GoLite Breeze, but wanted something with just a bit more volume for solo extended trips in cold weather to accomodate a slightly bulkier colder degree sleeping bag, a heavier coat, and a bit more food.

I, too, want to reiterate that a woman backpacking without a partner to share the load carries just as much gear as a man and needs just as much volume (maybe more since men do not carry feminine protection). Make the bag the same larger volume but shape it a bit shorter and wider (our hip bones are broader and can carry something wider).

The shoulder straps should be attached closer together, but
be shaped more narrow and curve around the neck before curving back in towards the chest. Many of the packs I tried on had straps that were so wide they cut painfully into my neck or were attached so far apart they cut into my upper arm and cut off blood flow to my lower arm (a very weird, tingly and painful feeling).

For those ladies that like a sternum strap, could you make it ride higher, above those bumps that men don't have?. I don't currently use one, but when trying on packs I learned that there's nothing more uncomfortable (or unattractive) than being flattened :-)

It would be great if the bag had very deep pockets on all three sides to hold my water filtration system and water, trekking poles, tent poles and stakes, and a wet fly (remember, as a solo hiker, I have to carry my entire tent). I like to carry the wet or dirty stuff on the outside without lashing everything on.

A narrow only slightly padded hip belt would be nice. Some packs I tried on had hip belt pads so wide they didn't fit comfortabley between my hip bones and rib cage. Many women carry enough of our own padding on our hips…we really don't need too much more.

Oh yes, I agree with the others…absolutely no pink or purple packs! I have no desire to look like a six-year-old girl in the woods. I prefer earthy colors but not black. Black makes the inside of the bag too difficult to see into.

I do not need a lot of straps to compress the bag (except one for the bag's top opening) to make it smaller. My bag is always full for a backpack trip. I use my small daypack for day hikes, not a compressed big bag.

Now, if only you could design this dream bag in time for my upcoming Thanksgiving backpacking trip! However, I look forward to checking your site for new designs in the future.

Thanks for listening.

A couple of responses to comments:

A 3000+ cubic inch (50+ liter) pack is too big for me even though all my backpacking is solo. I have a Six Moon Designs Comet, and even for a 10-day trip barely fill the main bag (2800 cu.in.)–I've never used the extension collar, even with the larger Bear Vault. In fact, I'm seriously considering cutting off and re-hemming most of the extension collar to save weight and to get rid of the velcro closure (which, among other things, tends to pick up loose dog hair). I do use the outside pockets and like them deep–tent on one side (so I don't have to expose pack contents to rain when setting up camp), water on the other, rain gear on the front. Admittedly, I have this pack adjusted down to the smallest torso length, and the shoulder straps could be more comfortable, but it does support the weight (up to 30-35 lbs. if need be, although for 10 days I generally start with 25) comfortably and with the "optional" aluminum stays (mandatory if I want the load lifters to get the weight off my pressure-sensitive shoulders) weighs only 27 oz. (765 g).

On the trail, I meet a lot of other solo woman backpackers and plenty of couples who divide their weight equally rather than loading it onto hubby. I believe that those of you men who consider your female SO's as delicate little flowers needing to be nurtured are in the minority. You may be in for a shock one of these days, when "little wifey" turns out to be a lot tougher than you think.

I definitely agree with others on color: no "bink and burple," no bright colors that stick out like a sore thumb from a mile away, no black.

My wife says most important is:

–women have boobs, so shaped shoulder straps that aren't crazy wide.

–shorter torso options–a small man typically equals a medium woman, and she's petite so she'd be a very very small man.

–don't assume women want smaller capacity, as many women are solo hikers.

Her favorite frameless packs are the original Golite Jam and the current ULA Conduit, however both are sized small and still a bit too tall for her torso.

I've learned a lot from all the thoughtful responses. Here are my wife's thoughts on the matter:

-shoulder straps that are shaped to avoid the neck and boobs are good
-options to place the sternum strap above the boobs are good
-a hip belt that sits on the hip bones and doesn't ride up is crucial, as is good weight transfer to the belt, she's dead in agreement with a lot of the women here in that she doesn't like much weight on the shoudlers

Her favorite pack is our Osprey Talon, in no small part because the hipbelt is awesome.
And not all women have short torsos. She wears around a 19-20" pack.

Finally someone else that expresses their dislike for those sternum straps that smash your br**sts down and pushes them together as one large smashed b**b. We talk about it among ourselves, but it would be nice to get someone to make some changes. Maybe two straps, one higher then the ones currently placed and one lower, under the br**st. Note that I could not write the word Br**st as it was detected as a profanity…..