Pack Cover or Pack Liner?

I agree with using a liver over a cover. Covers never seem to truly prevent water from getting through (I live in the Cascades). But have you ever considered the triple-use poncho? I’ve had excellent results keeping my pack dry while hiking with a poncho.

Another vote for liner. Gossamer Gear sells some nice ones in different sizes. Those are the ones that I use.

EDIT:
I too use a poncho or a silnylon cape to further cover the pack and keep it and contents dry.

I think it depends on the pack. If the pack is made of a hydrophobic fabric and with few seams, a liner is probably better. If the pack fabric can hold water (even if it’s coated and hence waterproof) and/or it’s got lots of seams, I prefer a cover. A soaked pack weights more and a cover prevents this.
If you use a cover, choose one that fits your pack as best as possible or better yet make one yourself out of some silnylon. Even though water has this ability to get into everything if you give it the time, with a well adjusted cover it shouldn’t happen in significant amounts. I like covers that fully embrace the pack but not at the bottom, where water could pool. I prefer an open bottom. Cord and lock for volume adjustments.

After lots of misery in the superwet, I have finally settled on a package that workes for me: Pack cover with poncho. Here’s why.

1. Liners just haven’t worked for me. They will keep things sort of dry when the inside of the pack turns into a swamp, but not as well as you might expect. Several pack designs have assumed the pack will be lined and therefore a mesh pack bag is as good as anything else. I’ve tried that. Mesh or not, I prefer to start every day with a dry pack instead of a soggy, nasty, mildewed mess. [Liners are fine for river trips with hypolon dry bags that don’t get soaked themselves.]

2. A pack cover without a poncho is useless because it does not protect the back, and designs attempting to do so have not succeeded. Friction and pressure between the back of the pack and the back of the packer as well as skin chemicals all tend to saturate the back of the pack, soaking padding and permitting water to enter the bag. Straps and padding also get soaked, mildewed and soured – with results that are at least aesthetically questionable. (Nothing is more miserable than the feeling of wet, cold pack straps the first thing in the morning when you have been so far warm and dry.)

3. A poncho covers the space between pack and packer AND covers the pack. Then the question is whether to also use a pack cover. I vote for it. It will protect the pack when you are not wearing it. And a properly designed pack cover doubles (triples, quadruples) as a water bag, bathtub, gear hammock, and pack explosion container.

Note: the S2S liner is silnylon with an additional PU coating. That means it will presumably be completely waterproof – unlike silnylon alone. In other words, it will be as good as a trash compactor bag — which you might want to try before investing in the S2S gear.

The poncho-with-pack-cover package is more efficient if you make the poncho do multiple duty as a tarp or groundsheet.

Thanks to all for the feedback. Gives me some more things to think about. Just the thought of putting on a wet pack in the morning is enough to make want to go back to be right now.

-jeff

If you are in areas with dense bush covers are a real nuisence, snag and tear. Also if there is risk of pack imersion – eg falling/ getting knocked over while crossing rivers, covers are not effective. Even with care liners get holes in them, duct tape etc works well.

Jeff:

Hope you don’t mind if I piggyback a question.

For those of you who prefer poncho style pack covers, which brand did you choose and why?

I’ve used several. Just mentioning the UL poncho-tarps I’ve used (older, non-L/UL pure ponchos are not listed)

In chrono order:

1. ID SilPoncho
2. Equinox Terrapin ExtensionPoncho
3. BMW SpinnPoncho-T LITE
4. ID SilCape
5. and now, though I’ve only just received it, SMD Gatewood Cape.

I expect #5 to be excellent. Really, like #1, #2, and #3. #4 has some good points, but I still have mixed emotions about it.

I like a cover and I use a commercial clear plastic garbage bag (1.4oz.) for a pack liner. I use a Outdoor Research water proof stuff sack for my sleeping bag— to keep it dry and to compress it a bit. The cover has helped with heavy dew and wet brush as well as rain. I guess you could make a case for a cover providing UV protection.

I don’t do much bushwacking with a multi-day pack and the trail brush I’ve encountered had been big soft leafy stuff– it can get you soaking wet, but is doesn’t snag much, so I can’t vouch for snagging problems.

Reading about issues with covers and river crossings leads me to ask why you can’t just stow the cover for a crossing if you think it will be a hazard.

The cost and weight of pack covers does annoy me! A thumbnail survey of pack cover prices was $24-$50. I use a Granite Gear Storm Cell cover that runs 5.6oz. You can buy whole packs that weight less!

The question that we need to ask is why we can buy waterproof stuff sacks but our packs are not. The idea that we have this expensive luggage on our backs that doesn’t protect our clothing and sleeping gear from simple rain just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

With my change to a SMD Cape/Shelter, it looks like I may drop the cover.

The whole idea of a poncho is starting to look promising since it would act as both a rain cover for myself and my pack when needed. Then I can leave my Marmot Pre-Cip and 13 oz. behind. I’m not interested in getting a poncho that can convert into a tarp for pitching, really just something to wear. The ID SilCape looks like an interesting option. Anything like that I should be considering, maybe something with slightly more coverage. Thanks to all, you are a wealth of information!!!

-jeff

handsdown on the ponchotarp. i particularly like having it as a separate cooking/eating shelter.

Check out Brawny’s Ultralight Poncho / Tarp / Pack Cover at: http://trailquest.net/dlgcponchotarp.html

It’s quite large, proviing great coverage as a poncho, and can be used as a shelter also.

Steve

1. ID SilPoncho
2. Equinox Terrapin ExtensionPoncho
3. BMW SpinnPoncho-T LITE
4. ID SilCape
5. and now, though I’ve only just received it, SMD Gatewood Cape.

Thanks.

I’ve used both of these successfully, though I prefer the Silponcho. Both kept me dry; the Silponcho has a drawstring in the rear hem that lets you cinch it around the pack then tie around your waist – eliminating the flapping that I had with the Equinox.

Of course, “dry” is a relative term with any raingear. Neither poncho kept me from getting damp due to sweating in August midwest heat and rain (nothing does), but they were less sweaty than a rain suit. Also, walking all day in the rain using hiking poles, you will get some rain running back along you arms into the poncho (a little more than with a rainsuit); you’ll also get some leakage around the face and neck where the hood meets, just like a rain jacket. Again, nothing’s perfect, but these two ponchos worked at least as well as any rain jacket I’ve ever had, and better than most.

One minor problem, which may be strictly a personal quirk, is that I always found I carried a wind jacket (and usually pants) in addition to the poncho. This meant that the combined weight of the 3 items was the same as the rain suit and pack cover they replaced. However, after the rain quit, I had dry windwear; I had to wait for the rain suit to dry.

I’ve recently gone back to using a rain suit (Patagonia Specter), for no really specific reason other than it just seems to work more effortlessly for me. I can’t complain about ponchos, and would recommend the Silponcho, especially, to anyone.