Non-free standing tent for JMT

If your guy lines are long enough, in the places where the ground is not stake-able, you can tie them to rocks,logs, trees, etc. I've done this before with a Golite Poncho tarp in A-Frame mode at Lake Aloha in Desolation Wilderness.

I did the JMT this summer with a totally freestanding tent (the FirstLight) and didn't even bring stakes. But my two trail buddies both had tents that needed some staking.

Our criteria for camp spots was mostly to have a fabulous view. My buddies set up on sandy spots that had staking opportunities and me usually on a slab of granite nearby. The need for staking was never an issue.

Finished up the JMT on Sept. 5th. I used a Duomid (pyramid type tarp) and an inner net-tent that also had to be staked. I used MSR groundhog stakes (y stakes) that could be pounded in with a rock for the four corners. Titanium skewers for everything else.

I just camped wherever I felt like stopping and usually wasn't wasn't too much trouble getting stakes in the ground. High up near a pass the soil may be only a couple inches deep and you may need some rocks for one or two of the corners.

What chunk are you doing?

Freestanding would be more helpful in the south, but isn't a requirement. Just an advantage for some people, on some nights.

Start at the north end. Thus is my first longer trip, so I'm guessing we'll do about 12/day over 7 days. I assume this is pretty reasonable.
My incomplete gear list, with 1.5lbs food/day, a bear can, and 60oz alcohol fuel says my weight total (incl shoes, worn stuff) is 32lbs.

My experience along the JMT is that any of the places I stopped I was able to use stakes. Of course, easy setup (being able to use stakes) was part of my campsite selection criterea. There were a few site I might have choosen to use if I had a freestanding tent… but the place I moved on to was still beautiful and was close by so this was no sacrifice, especially in light of my shelter system being around a pound.

The suggestion of Y stakes for their added holding power and/or extra long guylines so you can use deadfall/rocks in the places that aren't ideal for staking is a reasonable suggestion. The 6" easton stakes have been more than adequate for me… though if you pound them in with a rock too many times, the epoxy that keeps the top to the shaft can break and you have to dig the shaft out.

–mark

There is a lot of rock on the JMT, but I can always find a spot to set up my non-free standing shelters.

That said, I also carry three titanium nail stakes in addition to my regular stakes. In super-compacted ground – like most established campgrounds or in really rocky areas with little soil – the nails will give you a pilot hole into which to drive your other stakes.

I used a carbon fiber stake and it broke as I was trying to push it in by hand. Another had the top break as I pounded it with a rock. By chance I found a thin straight metal stake on the ground and it went in easily. So, don't use a hollow stake. Ground was hardest at a site a mile north of Forester Pass and alongside Guitar Lake north of Whitney.
When you have to use a rock as an anchor because of hard ground, put your stake through the loop, lay it parallel to the tent floor, ie. form a "T", then weight it down with rocks. (That is if your guy lines are not long enough to easliy tie around a rock) Another way is to put a rock inside of al stuff sack and tie it to the shelter tie-out to act as an anchor.

We leave for our trip on Tuesday. It's late in the season and I heard that it snowed last week. I'll have a 15 degree bag. I was planning on just the fly but an experienced JMTer suggested I bring the full tent for warmth.

What do you (all) think? The fly doesn't seal against the ground, but
it's within 5ish inches. Will we be warm enough without
the extra heat trapping features of a fu zippered
tent?? (this model, the Mtn Hrdwr PCT-2 has lots of mesh).

I'd like to avoid bringing the extra weight, but I also don't want to freeze.

Another consideration apart from the warmth factor and pegging is the vulnerability of the main pole to wind damage. In my experience, using fly only setups with long arched poles can get a bit flappy in high winds. Maybe consider attching some guyout points and take spare cordage.

A night – or several nights, is a long time to spend freezing…

Cheers

Never done the JMT, but it would bother the Boy Scout in me too much to not be prepared for possible snow at this time of year, especially with no easy way to bail out.

“We leave for our trip on Tuesday. It’s late in the season and I heard that it snowed last week.”
“…first longer trip…”
“…weight total is 32#”
“Fly only or full tent?”

Simon,
In the sense of “equal opportunity” I think it only appropriate to suggest all the admonitions and comments that are mentioned in Planning to do JMT in early October. (Just in case you missed it.)

I don't know enough about the meteorology of the area, but I not there are reports of unusually early snows coming from several parts of the U.S.

Stay safe and warm.

The advice so far has been helful and somewhat cautionary.
I've decided to take the full tent which means I'll almos surely be taking my nit so lightweight Gregory pack instead of mu ULA Conduit – just don't think I can fit it all, with the Bearikade, in that little guy. But I'll do a test fit as soon as the can arrives (rented it).

Our latest plan is to start at about 60ish miles from Whitney, entering at Kearsarge Pass. Higher altitudes down here which means greater likelihood of early season storms, I think. Bringing some traction for ice, but wasn't planning on anything specific for snow.

My other concern, as echoed in the forum thread linked-to above, is white-out navigation. I know how to use a compass and map, and were bringing a SPOT as a last resort (though I know it's nothing to be counted on). Additional advice?

You got enough food for half a trip? If Vermillion is even open when you get there.

I wouldn't be happy with a 15 degree, but I'm paranoid that way. It's gonna be colder than that. It was 30 in August at night… wind chill makes it feel colder. I was up on the northern section that first week of August when it snowed. Would not even try the southerly portion this late in the year. But then, I've never had winter b'packing experience, and don't intend to.

We'll be carrying all our food with us (6 days plus 1+ days extra just in case).

Where is Vermillion?

I don't have much in the way of snow camping experience either, just been doing plenty o' research. Will definitely be on the lookout for storms and plan a few bail-out points – though it looks like Shephard Pass Trail is the only one, about 1/2-way through our trip.

I'd love some expert advice here. I'm likely going to have to ditch my Conduit pack in favor of my 4.5lb Gregory Reality to fit it all in.

Per Lori's comments – thinking I may add a sleeping bag liner to add an extra couple degrees to my bag (in addition to sleeping fully clothed).

Besides gear, a few of these *DANGER* posts are getting to me. Especially since I've not camped in the snow (which I hope there won't be, but certainly something to plan for). My thoughts to prepare for this are:
1) bring additional warm clothes
2) bring some extra fuel
3) bring some extra food (this and above in case we get stuck)
4) bring SPOT as last ditch backup
5) download the Topo app to my iPhone 3GS as a last ditch navigation tool (plan to rely on compass + map).

Are my ThinLight and NightLight (torso) pads enough for weather this cold? Do I bring an additional piece of my ridgerest for more insulation? If I do bring my Gregory pack, there's padding and plenty of material in it to go under my legs.

"Additional advice?"

If things get really bad and you can't get out over Shepherd Pass, drop DOWN into Kern Canyon. It's sheltered, lots of wood and water. It's a long hike down the canyon, but it's doable and safe. It's my standard bolt hole if things go south on me in October. Haven't had to use it so far, but it's nice to know it's there. Good luck.

Kern Canyon – that's a good backup. When you used that as a bailout, what did you do from there? Wait till things cleared then hiked out to Whitney Portal?

What were the conditions under which you left your trail for Kern Canyon, and how long did they take to clear up?

There is another advisory for the next few days, snow and potentially high winds in the Sierras from Yosemite to SEKI, snowline around 8,000 feet.

This is probably going to be more the norm than the exception… I was tentatively going to Tioga Pass for a day hike next week, but will be keeping a real close eye and checking out my snow cables before I leave.

"Kern Canyon – that's a good backup. When you used that as a bailout, what did you do from there? Wait till things cleared then hiked out to Whitney Portal?"

Simon,

As I mentioned in my original post, I haven't had to use it yet. I have been in Kern Canyon many times, down as far as Rattlesnake Creek, and spend a lot of time in the Upper Kern/Great Western Divide region. As part of my trip planning, I long ago figured out that the canyon would be far and away the safest place to ride out a bad storm in that area. Depending on conditions after a storm subsided, I would either hike out down the canyon or climb back out and exit over Shepherd Pass. Going out over Whitney would be more difficult than Shepherd Pass if significant snow had fallen. If I am out there in October, I am constantly keeping my routes down into the canyon in mind, especially if the weather starts to look iffy. That said, if you are anywhere between Forester Pass and Wright Creek, you should be able to high tail it out over Shepherd Pass if things start to look seriously bad, before the pass gets blocked. There are very distinct trails to follow, and they would not likely be obscured in the amount of time, say 3 hours max, that it would take you to get over the pass. Much beyond Wright Creek you would have to make a judgment call as to whether to go for Shepherd Pass or drop down Wallace Creek(High Sierra Trail) into the canyon. It's always good, IMO, to keep scenarios like this in mind if you are hiking in this area in mid-late October. You'll probably not have to use them, but it's nice to have thought them through in advance, just in case.

Hi Simon,

Your gear list shows two very light sleeping pads. I submit for your consideration that as you are almost certain to experience below freezing weather that you increase the "R" value beneath you. WE can do a lot to adjust to our situations and survive but IMHO there is no reasonable effective way for you to block the cold from the ground at night with your present gear set-up.

Enjoy!

IMO, your sleeping pad combination will be woefully inadequate, perhaps dangerously so, for this time of year. As others have pointed out, you may be pushing the limits already with a 15° sleeping bag. You need more protection from heat loss to the ground.

Both Gossamer Gear CCF pads are made of Ensolite, which has an R value of approximately 0.2 per 1/8th inch. The solid portion of the Nightlite pad is only 1/4" thick; the extra 1/2 inch of egg crate foam above that is to make it cushy and help entrap air. The Thinlite pad is only 1/8 inch thick, so you have a total thickness of 3/8 to 1/4 inch = max R of 0.8. That's no where near enough for the low temperatures you'll be facing at night. I'd suggest you'll want an R value in the area of 4.0 to be comfortable, assuming your bag and clothing are up to the task.

For comparison, the R value of your CC Ridgerest is only 2.6