Sep 30, 2009 at 11:29 am #1239776
I'm super pumped about my new fabric insert for my DuoMid. My sister-in-law is quite the seamstress. The fabric insert she sewed for me weighs in at 14.5 ounces (weight includes all shock cords, etc). Yellow fabric is 1.1osy ripstop nylon and the grey fabric is 1.3osy silnylon. Tough project but it turned out great! Getting ready to field test it in perfect "testing" conditions: Colorado Rockies, 10,000+ft, forecast calls for 8" snow, 20-30mph sustained wind, 60+ mph wind gusts, lots of spindrift, and temps between 5-15F. Here is a crappy cell phone photo of an awesome shelter – will post better photographs later.Sep 30, 2009 at 12:28 pm #1531828
@mikefaedundeeLocale: Under a bush in Scotland
Looks good Brian. I'll wait on Ron to produce one, as my sewing skills are zero.:(
Just a thought though, shouldn't the door be on the other side to match up with the door on the outer?Sep 30, 2009 at 6:45 pm #1531973
Here are some better pictures of the inner fabric tent for my DuoMid
Mike – good observation. We did unintentionally sew the zipper on the wrong side. To be honest, I'm glad we did in hind sight. It's still easy to get in and out even with the left door staked out. If there is blowing snow or rain it will theoretically keep the tent floor from getting wet when entering/exiting the tent.Sep 30, 2009 at 6:58 pm #1531978
Looks really good!
Please let us know how it works out in those awesome testing conditions!Sep 30, 2009 at 6:59 pm #1531979
Oh yea, nice inner tent.Sep 30, 2009 at 9:08 pm #1532000
@cooldripLocale: "Grand Canyon of the East"
Wouldn't be too tough of a fix to reverse the door. Turn it inside out, re-sew the corner loops (or just sew on new ones) on the inside. The stake loops don't have alot of tension, so it shouldn't be a big deal. The zippers have dual pull-tabs, I would think, so with new loops on the inside it could be used either way. Nice patterning by the way; that's not easy to do and have it come out square and set up taut. Good Job!Sep 30, 2009 at 9:08 pm #1532001
Looks great. Over on his blog Ryan Jordan reports that
"The shelter is a Mountain Laurel Designs pyramid. Like most pyramids, it suffered badly from snow loading during the night, and I didn't get a lot of sleep (owing to the routine of: listen to snow fall on silnylon, fall asleep, wake up and all is quiet so you think it quit snowing, fall asleep again, wake up to silnylon on face and knees and feet, bang snow of sides of shelter, repeat; with interludes of shoveling snow from the exterior edge of shelter)."Sep 30, 2009 at 10:04 pm #1532019
Yes but you can also read on the MLD site:
"MLD Pyramids were used by Erin And Bretwood Higman for their 4,000+ mile hike from Seatlle to the end of Alaska. groundtruthtrekking.org
We have include their 300+ nights of trail feedbackliving in a SUPERMID to make MLD Pyramids strong for all types of weather. See their blog for a pic of the Silnylon Pyramid still standing under 400lbs of snow buried to the top! "
YMMVSep 30, 2009 at 10:37 pm #1532020
Yes but Ryan didn't say it wasn't still standing at the end of the night. Some people do like Mids in snow, but I suspect they work best when they are dug in a bit. Thereby leaving less surface area for the snow to collect on.
I'm going to order one in the next day or so, but have much more need of high wind performance than snow performance.Sep 30, 2009 at 11:11 pm #1532026
I can't be certain, but it looks like Ryan didn't use the mid panel guylines, so this may have had an impact.Oct 1, 2009 at 2:37 am #1532037
Franco DarioliBPL Member
Door "problem". It seems to me that it would be very simple to add a guyout point to the other panel if that option was required.
However I do think that the extra protection as it is can be a good trade for brushing against the fly during entry/exit.
At the same time it looks pretty tight if one is 6' or over and on a thick mat/winter sleeping bag. (if my measurements are correct…)
FrancoOct 1, 2009 at 9:08 am #1532129
Ron BellBPL Member
Winter Inner looks great- good job Brian!
Note on snow and Pyramids to help clear it all up- maybe a little:-)
Ryan's Mid is a custom size shorter one and so has a lower profile – less weight, uses a shorter pole ( single trek pole or some shorter pack raft paddles, etc.) and maybe a little better at wind shedding using fewer stakes and it costs a lot less to build and sell.
Erin and Higs Mid was much taller- so steeper walls and better snow shedding and more head room. Taller peaks also also are bit more usable floor space for a given base length. More weight and more cost.
Both sizes and styles have their plusses.
We've seen the need for both and have prototyped a few mid changes for 2010. 24oz vs about 18 oz. Both 8.75 X 8.75. About a $100 difference in cost.
Note the short horizontal seams on the taller one near the tops- no long vertical mid panel seams at the each side = about 2 oz less seam sealer vs the other style vertical seams too.
Here's a pic of the two sizes with me in the middle- 6'1".
So, when you hear "Pyramid" – think like you heard "Tent"- lots of different ones and all have their place.
RonOct 1, 2009 at 9:11 am #1532130
Ron BellBPL Member
MId picOct 1, 2009 at 9:17 am #1532133
Thanks for the input Ron.
So three versions then?
-lower profile mid
-higher profile mid
What is the general expected height on the lower profile mid?Oct 1, 2009 at 11:59 am #1532169
Regarding the door, seriously it's not an issue going in an out. But, Franco, good idea of adding a guy out point on the right door if I find out in the field that its a pain. I'm thinking that I'll like the protection from the elements that it currently provides.
As for the size, two adults (regular bags or shorter) can fit if they sleep head to toe. However, there is not room for packs or other bulky gear. For solo use, the size is perfect for 1 plus gear on those harsh winter days. For two plus gear on a winter trip, I think a step walled 9'x9' pyramid would be ideal!
I'm hoping the shelter will breath well enough. I plan to keep the door partially open near the top unless the wind is really blowing the snow around.
Ron, thanks for commenting and designing such a versatile shelter. All the sewing work is to be credited to my sister-in-law, who I merely helped hold and pin fabric on occasion.Oct 1, 2009 at 12:13 pm #1532173
Tremendous, the duomid insert looks great.
And… just in case Ron drops by to let you know the MLD site is down at the moment…… just when you fancy a bit of gear browsing! ;-)Oct 1, 2009 at 3:02 pm #1532231
Franco DarioliBPL Member
I see that you have a two way zip on the insert, that would allow a small opening at the top as well as the bottom if you need to get more air flow. Maybe just attach a loop to the corner of the other door panel so that you can add a guyline in the field. Could be useful if the wind/rain changes direction. Nice colour combo by the way…
FrancoOct 1, 2009 at 9:28 pm #1532325
Good call Franco on the extra guy out loop. I like the color scheme as well!Oct 12, 2009 at 11:26 am #1535579
Just returned from my late fall, week-long fishing trip in the Rockies. The conditions were just right for testing the DuoMid + the Fabric Insert. Here are my thoughts on 3 different environmental conditions that I experienced:
West side of Rocky Mountain National Park
2 adults slept in shelter/fabric inner (one with 6’ long bag, one with 6’6” long bag) head to toe. Single pole configuration. Gossamer Gear polycro sheets placed below fabric insert.
# 1: Low temp: 35F, minimal winds, no precipitation, low humidity. Clipped bathtub insert into tent and slept on top of inner fabric (essentially used bathtub floor and did not raise fabric). Minimal condensation experienced.
#2: Low temp 35->30F, 10-15 mph winds, rained nearly all night, early morning hours began snowing. Fabric door occasionally left opened. Slept inside inner fabric insert. Significant condensation on tarp and fabric walls
# 3: Low temp 15F, average winds sustained at 20-30 mph (wind gusts reported at 60mph), several hours of snow, totaling ~ 5”, dry unpacked snow, spindrift present. Slept inside inner fabric insert. Sealed 3 sides of tarp edges with some logs and snow. Door left partially open. Significant (frozen) condensation on tarp, moderate wet condensation on fabric wall.
Trip notes on shelter and insert:
1) Definitely was warmer and dryer than just sleeping under the tarp. Overall really liked the insert.
2) For winter trips with 2 adults I would use two bivys instead of the fabric insert. I’ll use the insert for full winter trips where one person (perhaps 1 adult and 1 child) wants extra room for gear and more comfort/space while “waiting out storms”. No room for packs if two adults inside fabric inner. Needed to sleep head to toe for adequate fit.
2) Too short for anyone using a bag longer than 6 feet in length. On a particularly humid night, needed to drape my rain coat over my 6’ long sleeping bag footbox to avoid condensation wetting out bag.
3) Need to work out how to use two trekking poles in an inverted V formation to increase internal space so one person can sleep diagonally – with gear on each side.
4) Suffered from sufficient ventilation issue as evident by condensation inside, especially during condition #2 above. On side where door was located and left open condensation did not form. On non-door side, significant condensation present. Need to add ventilation ports on head/foot sections and one at top to improve air flow through inner insert. Will not seal shelter sides while using fabric insert.
5) Needs to increase interior room by attaching fabric to DuoMid at mid-height corner tie out points. Will sew mid panel shock cords to attach to inverted V trekking poles.
6)Liked the zipper being on left. Protected bathtub floor from snow fall during shelter entry and exit. Will add loop to other tarp door (as suggested by Franco) so ease entry/exit during fair weather.
7) Will increase diameter of zipper pull guyline (presently used window blind guyline). Too difficult to open with mitts.
8) Need to add few guy-loops on fabric inner for headlamp and eyeglasses.
9) DuoMid was rock solid in high winds. Fabric inner held up to use and conditions without signs of fraying or failure (compliments of my sister-in-law's sewing prowess).
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