Sep 30, 2009 at 7:20 am #1239764
This is the year I might finally move from my trusted Buffalo S6 to Paramo. I know I said that last year and posted but we have a new smock that looks very good.
Any of our UK members used this one?Sep 30, 2009 at 7:56 am #1531729
Bob, I'm also looking at this, but am also seriously interested in this http://www.paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYLIGHTJACKETQUITOUNISEX
lighter, full jacket specs with the same underarm ventilation. I've a trip to the UK/London in Nov, and I'll be getting one or the other thenSep 30, 2009 at 8:01 am #1531731
Just got mine three days ago. Haven't had a chance to use it yet, but it's brilliant! Definitely lighter and less bulky than my older Cascada Jacket (which I still love and will be using in colder weather). The only thing I don't like is that it's awfully short in the front. Even a regular t-shirt sticks out from under it. Will have to see how the jacket performs when I'm out in the rain this weekend.
I also bought the Velez Adventure Trousers. A little warm for this time of the year, I think, but a little more form fitting than the Cascada Trousers.
Both of these garments will replace a rain layer and light mid-layer. The smock is lighter than my wool baselayer shirt/ MontBell Versalite Jacket combination.Sep 30, 2009 at 8:03 am #1531734
I also considered the Quito jacket, but the color choices are just simply awful!Sep 30, 2009 at 8:46 am #1531751
with you on the colour, but 800 grams is 800 grams!
I'm also going to be looking at the new trousers…Oct 2, 2009 at 9:38 am #1532448
Any chance you can take some pictures for us, with my thanks?Oct 2, 2009 at 12:17 pm #1532495
Brian, you called?
The trousers have hip-to-knee length zippered side vents. The ankles have a velcroed cinch… not sure how well they go over worn boots or shoes.
The complete system, completely waterproof, and more breathable than any membrane system, weighing altogether 1,010 gm… 570 gm for the Smock, 440 gm for the Trousers.
The right zippered front vent, opened. There is another on the left side.
Showing how short the front is, with a regular t-shirt underneath.
The material is very soft and pliable, so it is very easy to roll up the sleeves like a shirt, for ventilation.
The hood is fixed (for regulations in British adventure racing), and folds away into a collar. It can take a full-sized climbing helmet and is adjustable in the back and sides.
These are perhaps the slimmest cut of any Paramo clothing I have tried. Should do very nicely in the wind, and easily take an insulated jacket over it. For really wet winter conditions I'm considering getting the insulation layers of Torres Jacket and Trousers to wear over these. Since they work even when wet or with wet clothing underneath, it will make for a more versatile and protective system… Just wonder about the weight, though…Oct 3, 2009 at 10:04 am #1532668
Very, very cool of you to do!
You favor the Paramo over the traditional Buffalo? (I know that the two systems use totally different methods but they seem to be the Big Two in the UK.)Oct 3, 2009 at 1:11 pm #1532705
Thanks for the pics!
Paramo for insulation, for day hikes maybe, but the weight is just too much for backpacking. Fleece, down, synthetic fill, all do the same for less weight.Oct 3, 2009 at 9:41 pm #1532799
You favor the Paramo over the traditional Buffalo? (I know that the two systems use totally different methods but they seem to be the Big Two in the UK.
I sometimes also use a Montane Epic Jacket (no longer made), which is about half the thickness of my other Montane PP jacket, the Extreme Smock. I'm not in the UK, (Japan) so the weather conditions are a little different here… it rains just as much, but in torrents rather than long, non-stop drizzles. I like both PP jackets, but they are very bulky (often end up walking just in my base layer even in the winter, and so putting them away in the pack takes up too much room) and way too warm most of the time.
With the Paramo you get a completely waterproof system that is more breathable than anything else on the market, even Barbour wax jackets. I think a lot of people tend to continue to think in conventional terms when using them and so misunderstand them as being too heavy. I think it is more accurate to see them as waterproof "mid-layers" that can act as outer layers, effectively getting rid of the need for an out layer. If you bring a windbreaker, too, you have a system that can handle light precipitation and be very light, or you can use the Paramo on its own and be a little warmer, or both, to get a little warmer still. You can also wear them directly against the skin, just like PP clothing, and they will do the same thing (except they are not as warm). The Velez Adventure Trousers are the only thing you need in cooler weather. For late Autumn/ Winter trips you will never take them off. I usually find that Paramo is just right in most rain conditions, because the rain cools everything down, and Paramo never gets moisture buildup inside, even when you're sweating profusely. The only time I take them off in the rain is when it is really hot… then I just don't need any rain layer at all, as long as I can dry out quickly during breaks (which Paramo is also good for… they will dry out your clothing faster when you take a break and put them on over your wet under layers… as will Pertex/Pile systems. Goretex just can't do this).
Unlike PP systems, too, you don't have to wear them against the skin for best results. Just wear a regular layer underneath. Or a fleece or fiber-fill insulation. The system still works (it doesn't depend on body heat to transfer the moisture, unlike PP clothing).
However, if you do a lot of bushwhacking or climbing amidst rocks and there is a high chance of abrasion, your Buffalos will be much more durable and resistant to ripping.
I am very interested in the new Fuera Ascent Windproof and Summit Hoodie. I'm think that I can get by with my Montane Lightspeed in lieu of the Windproof and just use the Summit Hoodie underneath, effectively making a near fully waterproof system that is very versatile.
Paramo for insulation, for day hikes maybe, but the weight is just too much for backpacking. Fleece, down, synthetic fill, all do the same for less weight.
Julian, yeah, I kept eyeing the Paramo insulation, but the weight is prohibitive. What do you think of the system if you use it like a PP system, during winter, when you never take the clothing off?
For the Velez Adventure Light Smock, I may just end up sewing a half-moon shaped flap of silnlyon along the front portion of the hem, to get more waterproof coverage.Oct 4, 2009 at 12:39 am #1532815
I forget who said it, Andy Howell in his blog maybe, that if you aren't wearing a paramo it is too heavy.
I'm building a system with either the velez, or the new quito, with the velez trousers to be worn permanently. If I need a base layer I'll use the BPL beartooth hoody, next step is to add an old helly waistcoat I've had for years, and then when it gets really cold, a phd UL sweater. All to be worn under the paramo… we'll see how it works!Oct 27, 2009 at 5:17 pm #1540241
@markrLocale: Santa Cruz
I'm planning on getting an Alta II but can't seem to find an seller who seems to give a fig about selling to me. The sites listed on the Paramo website have pretty much ignored my inquiries.
Anyone in the US who can recommend a dealer? I understand that I will have to buy through a dealer in the UK. That's fine with me.
Thanks,Oct 27, 2009 at 9:56 pm #1540330
Hey all Paramo users,
It looks like the Analogy pump liner that Paramo uses weighs 120 grams per square meter. This is about the same as a Capilene 2 baselayer. And yet everyone is always saying Paramo is very hot. Is the Paramo liner really much warmer than the fabric weight would indicate?Oct 27, 2009 at 10:05 pm #1540332
I was just looking at a forum thread the other day at outdoorsmagic about the Paramo Quito wherein a US-based guy named a UK source that would waive the VAT and ship to US at reasonable prices. A google search for 'Paramo Quito' should get you there.Oct 28, 2009 at 2:53 pm #1540558
all sales to outside the european union should be vat free –uk vat is 17.5 %Oct 28, 2009 at 4:25 pm #1540587
@markrLocale: Santa Cruz
The two dealers who I have managed to get any info from both stated that their advertised price included VAT and that would charge me the same price. Makes for a nice bit profit padding for them. And neither would even suggest what the shipping would cost. That pretty much eliminated them.
I did find a supplier who is not listed on the Paramo site who says that they would not charge the VAT. I have not tried to contact them yet.
I'm actually having second thoughts. I read on another site the liner is about equivalent to Polatec 200 in terms of insulation. Here on the California coast that would be too warm most of the time. Probably just about right for England.Oct 28, 2009 at 7:20 pm #1540671
I've read that as well, but at a weight of 120g/sm the liner can't be anywhere near as warm or thick as Polartec 200. Andy Davison at Furtech says his liner, which he says is thicker than Paramo's, is as warm as 100 fleece.
How warm do you reckon the liner to be Paramo users?Oct 29, 2009 at 12:11 am #1540744
depends how they are set up. But if they charge VAT it will be listed on the invoice and you can claim it back, although you may have to pay local taxesOct 29, 2009 at 1:24 am #1540748
I read on another site the liner is about equivalent to Polatec 200
Polartec 200??? No way! The liner is about the same thickness as 200 weight Icebreaker merino baselayer or an midweight Capilene undershirt. Not even close to Polartec 200. Not even as warm as Polartec 100. You'd freeze with just the liner. The outer shell does make it warmer than a simple fleece without a shell, though, because the shell blocks wind. The whole system, shell and liner, is about equivalent to a midweight wool or synthetic baselayer with a thin windbreaker over it. For me, because raindrops are cold and the air is usually cooler when it rains, this is about right for walking in the rain. You don't even need to wear anything underneath. This last weekend when I was walking in the rain in the mountains, with temperatures at around 5º C (41º F) I was fine with a 150 weight Icebreaker T-shirt, my Velez Adventure LIght Smock, and windbreaker on top of that (otherwise too cold in the wind).
One interesting thing I found is that the Velez Adventure Light Smock, with its newer, lighter shell than the older Nikwax Analogy shell I have on my Cascada Jacket, is warmer in some ways because the shell itself is a better insulator (it doesn't get cold to the touch the way the earlier shell does and therefore doesn't conduct as much heat away from my body).
Anyone who has worn both a Polartec 200 weight jacket and the new lightweight versions of the Paramo jackets would never say the Paramo is warmer!Oct 29, 2009 at 4:27 am #1540754
I have the earlier Velez Adventure which I bought two years ago – as Miguel says the front is too short, more like an aggressively cut cycling jacket than a normal waterproof.
I run hot and find the Velez too warm in anything above 15 C unless I'm in very cold rain. That said although I haven't had a chance to test it cross-country skiing I suspect that it would be perfect for the conditions in the Australian alps where you get temps around O – 5 C with slush and ice.
I'd like to try the Fuera/liner combination.Oct 29, 2009 at 4:33 am #1540756
A pertinent review:Sep 20, 2010 at 9:03 pm #1647408
@nigelhealyLocale: San Francisco bay area
I'd just add here, that there are a number of UK dealers which will sell to outside of the UK, and if outside of the EU will not include the local sales tax, which is increasing from 17.5% to 20% come Jan 1st 2011.
The dealer I've found good balance of pricing for the garments, timely responsiveness to requests, and pricing for international delivery is Foothills, in Sheffield. I've dealt with them for international orders for over 2 years. http://www.foothillshiking.co.uk/
My experience is click on their email link and list what you want and typically you'll get a quote within a day.
Roughly speaking, you should be thinking of lightweight (postage) expensive (sales tax reduction) items, which the avoidance of sales tax produces sufficient saving to justify the postage cost, so you're looking for items over about 80-100UKP.
Items like a Velez Adventure Light, or Quito, or the newer Vista, fall nicely into this category, as does Velez trousers.Sep 21, 2010 at 5:31 am #1647462
I've bought from a number of different UK dealers, but the one's I7ve bought most from are The Gorge Outdoors and, most recently, Castleberg OUtdoors. The Gorge Outdoors is very efficient and has most of what you need, but I found with Castleberg Outdoors a group of people who bent over backwards to help me get hard to find items, both Paramo and other companies. Very, very friendly and quick to reply. Both companies didn't ask for VAT (tax), as it rightly should be… orders outside the EU are exempt from sales tax.
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