How low can you go with a base layer, windshirt and rain jacket?

We might wear our thermal tops under our Taslan shirts for half an hour in the morning when it is frosty, but after that we take them off and just wear our Taslan shirt.

It also depends on the wind of course.

Cheers

Probably 20s or 30s depending on a whole lot of factors. My hands get cold and need some gloves first and a hat is necessary soon after. I really don't like being cold for no reason though so I often have an R1 hoody midlayer in the fall/winter to throw on when it's needed and keep the less breathable rain gear tucked away.

Cross country skiing when I was much younger, with no wind, -5F to -10F (~-20C). That's wearing a warm hat, mittens and a wool scarf, shirt, windbreaker, warm pants. I'd get warm enough that I could stop for lunch without adding layers if I was in the sun with no wind.

Nowadays, maybe 32F, 0C.

In the winter time in the Smokies I was just fine down to the upper 20s with midweight Capilene and frogg toggs. Of course I still had to use really warm gloves, socks, hat, etc. The one time I had to add a 100wt fleece while hiking was when the high was 15 for the day!

I never tried the windshirt and raintop at the same time because I rarely carry both. Seems like all that would do is raise the humidity inside.

Not to hijack… but is a wind shirt /jacket supposed to be a close fitting layer (same as usual size worn)… as in not much other than a light t-shirt or light icebreaker/merino undershirt beneath it? I am looking to purchase a wind shirt and don't want to buy a bigger size than I usually wear if it is meant to be layered OVER rather than layering beneath the wind jacket. Thanks!

@Alexander: Hey! I wear my windshirt (Montaine Lite Speed) right over my base layer (BPL Beartooth Merino Hoody), then add any insultation / waterproof on top as needed. I actually did about 4 miles in fairly heavy rain (no wind!) last night with just base + wind shirt: didn't even get wet except for a little condensation. Either way, I think you'll be fine getting your normal size versus oversizing. Now, if you were asking about puff insulation, that's another story altogether!

Thanks! Yeah, I figured the puff insulation (montbell UL Down Inner Jacket) would go over the layers when hanging about camp… That is if it isn't raining ;)

By the way, the reason I am asking this is that I intend to use this combination myself and throw in the down jacket (10-12oz) around camp. This seems to be the lightest possible clothing arrangement you can take for temperatures generally above freezing.

I tend to run a bit warm… so I am not the idea person to answer your question… but my experience is that while active supplex or light weight softshell pants, a light weight base, windshirt, appropriate hat and handwear is all I need to below freezing. I bring a high loft vest (or sometimes jacket) which is sometimes used to stay warm for longer stops or when I am in camp or need extra warmth while sleeping.

–Mark

The hands will decide this one first as will the head so you need to add a fleece cap and gloves. Given this I can go as low as 20 degrees if moving on the trail.

But wind is the game changer. I remember one day a front moved in and the morning temp dropped from 45 degrees to 25 in a couple of hours with winds gusts topping 50 mph. I was wearing thermals, windshirt, gloves, hat, and Montbell UL down jacket with a bandana around my face. I was cold even while moving and freezing when I stopped.

Jamie

Fleece cap and gloves are not a problem, I should have said that I also carry those. The issue is, do you need anything over and above a down jacket as insulation? There are so many accomplished hikers who carry down as their main insulation eg Glen Van Peski (see his gear list at Gossamer Gear) and Andrew Skurka on his great western loop. Sure in Alaska it may be too cold, wet and humid for down but I think for my part of the world it's probably a good combo in 3 seasons.

I have been thinking about this myself lately. Some factors to consider are if the wind shirt has a hood plus the type of hat and gloves used. For myself, in NZ non-alpine conditions, if active, I don't need more than a Montane Lightspeed, plus 100 weight fleece balaclava/hat and possum gloves. By putting on/off goves and hat, putting my hood up and down and opening the jacket I can cover a good range of coditions.

In steady rain I add waterproof over mits and a rain jacket. I plan to experiment a bit more with wearing the rain jacket and windproof at the same time. Chris Townsend has discussed this in the past – suggesting that the windproof will provide protection from any condensation inside the rain jacket.

The main conditions where I would consider bringing a 100 weight fleece vest or top as extra insulation would be in COLD sustained rain over a number of days – but I haven't drawn any firm conclusions on this yet. See the articles on BPL on cold rain conditions.

I have a Cocoon pullover or down jacket for rest stops and camp.

As stated, the hands dictate. I'd say 20s with an R1 hoody + hooded windshirt and powerstretch gloves. Pants are required.

As you noted, some people run warmer than others. I'll use a quick weekender or two to test gear strategies; somewhere with good exit points, or just bring backup gear and suck in the extra weight.

I can't rave enough about hooded base layers with thumb loops: tons of versatility, and lots of warmth retained by having your wrist and palms covered.

Don't wait too long before donning the gloves. Once I catch that chill, it's deep and hard to shake.

But the combo is proven: base layer; windshirt; gloves; backup down and rain jacket. I would, however, say that I've needed a second base layer if day temps are in the 20's and I'm avoiding the rain jacket and down.

cheers,
-Michael

I rarely hike in anything more than a base layer. It just gets too hot. The closest I'll come is in that wonderful range between 30*F to 45/50*F with moderate to heavy rain. In the upper range I'll still sometimes just wear the base layer, but sometimes I'll wear a shell with the sleeves pushed up all the way. If it's not raining, I'm usually comfortable in just the baselayer down to around 15*F when I'm on the move. If it's breezy, a windbreaker… but after a couple miles I start overheating. In 0*F, give or take 10*F, I'll generally start out in a thin wool layer (140-190-ish weight) and a windbreaker, and if I'm feeling "wussy" a thin fleece vest, topped off with a lightweight hat and gloves. The vest is gone in a mile or so, the hat turned up or taken off shortly after. Whether or not the gloves stay depends on the wind.

So, in my experience, you're fine to around 0*F with those three combined… provided you're on the move and making time. I don't think just adding the down layer is optimal for camp, though. Depends on the person, of course. But I get too hot moving around camp, and like the flexibility that a midweight layer affords me. Think a 300-ish weight wool, or if you prefer synthetic a powerstretch piece. If you're trying to minimize as much as possible, you could consider that midlayer combined with a big down vest. Could keep you decently warm, relatively sedentary, into the teens or twenties…?

The trick, of course, is your "whilst walking" aspect of the question. While actually hiking, I'd imagine you'd overheat wearing the base/wind/rain in all but near-zero F conditions. Once you stop, a big poofy down piece would probably be warm enough, but you might find that adding a midlayer would add a lot of practicality and a bit of a safety margin (it's easier to control moisture exposure to a sleeping bag than a jacket, IMHO), which is why you might consider the down vest/midlayer option. (I mention "poofy" and "big" down because trying to get away with a thin down layer won't work as well for most in those lower temps, particularly if that's your only insulation.)

been using the combo you stated above for many years and I can very comfortably get into the teens (with wool base, windshirt and rain jkt) as long as I am moving. If I am cold on the move I will add a synthetic high loft vest and when I stop a Belay type jacket. Works like a charm.