BD to use Nanotech in upcoming tents

I wonder if they will use the same stuff (brand name NanoSphere) that Feathered Friends uses in some of their bags. I have a sleeping bag made with the stuff and I've been happy with it (but I haven't challenged it the way I would a tent or jacket).

Please direct me to the place you found discounted BD tents. Thanks.

Aaron this is great info. I was looking at that discounted price and wondering if I should replace my beloved Firstlight from 2004 with a brand new one. Now I will not. First because come spring I'll want to get the new tent with the new and improved material and second because my old FirstLight is apparently more watertight than the current ones.

You can get the discounted price directly from Black Diamond here http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/climb/shelters

They’re here:

For some reason, though, only at a few dealers and not on BD’s own site. I look forward to testing or hearing from others who have had a chance to.

Thanks for the link, Aaron. You think the store could make a little effort explaining what Nanotech fabric is and how it compares to Epic??

Ben, maybe I am wrong, but I think those are the old discounted shelters, not the new updated ones with the new fabric.

I was hoping for a Bibler Eldorado deal, but I guess they aren't updating that one.

They probably want to sell out their current inventory before talking up the new stuff :)

Jeff and Rakesh:

If you click Aaron's link right above my post and then scroll down — there's a side-by-side spec comparison between 2009 and 2010. The Nanotech model is 2oz. heavier than the Epic model — but also a tad longer and wider. Too bad they didn't bother elaborating just what Nanotech is.

Sounds like reverse engineering from a fabric found on a crashed spacecraft. What ELSE is the government hiding from us? We damend the truth. They give us this alien technology like Aerogel in dribbles. We need full access to AREA 51. Who knows, we could be carrying a 5 lb. pack weights incuding 2 L. of water and 7 days's food if we had all the alien technology. :)

If this new nanotech fabric has the same or better hydrostatic head as silnylon AND is as light plus being breathable to some degree it may replace silnylon in single wall tents. Science marches on.

This thread has some info and hopefully BD will update their website soon with more info. In the meantime, I have found their staff to be rather knowledgeable, thus I’d suggest you give them a call for more info…then you can report back what you find to the threada :)

Sadly BD has dropped most of the Superlight line. Now with only the Hilight, Skylight, and Lightsaber. I think the One Shot held a lot of promise.

The Superlight line is a series of what I'd call "specialized" tents. Great for dry areas, or quick showers, or dry powdery snow. Probably not enough of a niche.

Can't remember the name, but there used to be one poster here who kept insisting these tents were "essentially rainproof" — which was, of course, patently false.

Yes, I had no interest in Epic, but with the new waterproof fabric and slightly longer dimensions of the One Shot, I would have bought one.

So the Nanoshield is truly rainproof?

From what I understand it is – i.e. HH greater than 1200mm. I looked for an e-mail direct from BD but now can't find it.

The BD Epic tents used the Alpine Summit process fabric. It averages a hydrostatic head of 1,300 mm.

Light silnylon and spinnaker cloth average 1,400 mm.

The new BD tents use a Nanoshield process fabric. It averages a hydrostatic head of 1,700 mm.

A thunderstorm can yield a hydrostatic of up to 11,200 mm and a typhoon up to 20,000 mm.

Nylon eVENT fabric averages 28,000 mm.

Conventional double wall tents typically use 70 denier urethane coated nylon with a 1 oz coating as the fly fabric. It averages a hydrostatic head of 5,000 mm.

I wish we could get all of Richard's posts 'stickied' for future reference. Honestly – I don't think there has ever been a post of your's that I haven't book marked for future reference.

Thanks!!

I agree. In 7 sentences, Richard has largely demystified the whole area of fabric water resistance, putting things in perspective and enabling us to make better gear judgment calls.

"The BD Epic tents used the Alpine Summit process fabric. It averages a hydrostatic head of 1,300 mm.

Light silnylon and spinnaker cloth average 1,400 mm.

The new BD tents use a Nanoshield process fabric. It averages a hydrostatic head of 1,700 mm.

A thunderstorm can yield a hydrostatic of up to 11,200 mm and a typhoon up to 20,000 mm.

Nylon eVENT fabric averages 28,000 mm.

Conventional double wall tents typically use 70 denier urethane coated nylon with a 1 oz coating as the fly fabric. It averages a hydrostatic head of 56,275 mm."

This is a potentially great data and could explain a lot of different perceptions and beliefs. But I have one significant question – @Richard – What are the sources of your data? If I assume that they are accurate (and I have no reason to doubt them at this time), this may put to rest some of the arguments surrounding "misting of sil-nylon". Some on this site have strongly denied the phenomenon and explained it as purely condensation. Rarely does a single cause explain every effect seen, but this data makes me think that the misting could at least have some contribution from moisture penetration. It therefore implies that using a higher hydrostatic head material could well reduce the amount of "misting" during a thunderstorm.
Looking for additional comments.

Now all we have to do is to go find a typhoon and do some testing.

–B.G.–

Richard:

It seems to me that the flies used for expedition double-walled tents (MH Trango, TNF VE-25) are far less waterproof than you suggest. For example, Mountain Hardwear says on its website that the Trango 3.1 rates 1,500mm for the fly and 3,000mm for the floor.

MEC, which has always done a fine job listing tent specifications, says its Nunatak has a floor rated to 10,000mm and a fly to 2,000. When MEC previously sold Bibler and Moss tents, I believe that the Bibler Todd-Tex canopy was rated at 10,000mm and the Moss flies at about the same–Moss floors were I believe 15,000mm.

Marc wrote, "Some on this site have strongly denied the phenomenon and explained it as purely condensation. ".

Messrs. Moak and Shires have both attested to the misting phenomenon repeatedly. It can (and does) happen in heavy rains. No personal experience yet, but methinks only fools would doubt the word of these two gentlemen.

In my experience it has more to do with the size of the rain drops.The bigger they are the faster they fall. So to me it is about speed not quantity/duration (unlike with Epic) . I have had heavy rain on my TTs without penetration but had penetration (minor and not bed wetting…) in lesser rainstorms. Whatever it is , as Ben (and of course Moak/Shires) stated it can and does happen.
And yes, I am 100% sure it wasn't dislodged condensation.
Franco
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2007/EvanKaplan.shtml

Carter,

You said, "It seems to me that the flies used for expedition double-walled tents (MH Trango, TNF VE-25) are far less waterproof than you suggest. For example, Mountain Hardwear says on its website that the Trango 3.1 rates 1,500mm for the fly and 3,000mm for the floor."

A current Sierra Designs tent fabric specification just says, “70D Nylon, 1500mm”. Their old description from a few years ago said, “70 denier 2 oz. Polyurethane Coated Nylon Taffeta is the flysheet fabric for all of our tents except the Ultralight series, Hercules series and Solomente. It has a 1500 mm waterproof PU coating and a waterproof rating of 80 PSI. We choose nylon over polyester because it has a higher abrasion resistance and tear strength, even after prolonged UV exposure.”

80 PSI is the same thing as a Resistance to water pressure mm/H20 – JIS I 1092 rating of 56, 275 mm.