What Do You Consider “Base Weight”

Base Weight = weight of pack and everything inside it except food or water

So that does not count the shoes on your feet or the hiking poles that your are using to scaffold yourself along?

you may be thinking of "skin-out" weight
dont count fuel in base weight. fuel bottle, yes.

This is where all this stuff gets confusing =)

Yeah I forgot fuel.

Basically it's just whatever is in your pack (including your pack) but subtract off consumable items like food/fuel/water. The idea is to get a number which doesn't depend on the number of days your trip is. Obviously you can argue that things like sunscreen and TP are consumables and will vary according to the trip length, but the difference between 3 days of sunscreen and 5 days of sunscreen is very small so no one cares.

So just subtract off food/fuel/water plus whatever you are wearing or carrying (eg. trekking poles) or is not in your pack and what's left is your base weight.

In the end it's just a number and not particularly important to get it exactly 'right'.

1. Worn Base Weight (aka worn or carried weight)- wearing or carrying in pockets/hands

2. Packed Base Weight (aka base pack weight)- gear inside or attached to pack

3. Consumables Weight- food, water, fuel

Total Base Weight (aka full skin out base weight) (1+2)

Total Pack Weight (aka initial pack weight) (2+3)

Skin-Out Weight (aka full skin out weight) (1+2+3)

This does get sticky though-

Is something in your pockets included in base weight? I would propose that it should be. After all, you are carrying it, not "using" it, as you are with trekking poles, shoes, or clothes.

That way, you don't get a freebie if you carry your knife in your pocket instead of in your pack. Consider it to be in a "virtual pack belt pocket." :o) Thus, I'm not one to make a big deal about of skin-out weight.

But otherwise, yes, IMHO the accepted definition of base pack weight is your pack and everything in it, less consumables. TOTAL pack weight, OTOH, includes the consumables.

Hi Dean. As Ryan Jordan has posted on before, the focus probably does need to turn to total base weight as an overall measure of lightweight backpacking rather than just packed base weight since some backpackers carry stuff in their pockets just to show SUL numbers on a gearlist. Maybe that was a reason Alan Dixon felt like defining XUL the way he did, and maybe it's a better "definition" of XUL than the initial use of less than 4 pounds packed base weight.

But, I can't speak for those guys. Those are just my observations in the past few years.

It is insightful to list weights by category of worn, packed, consumable, etc. Those numbers provide a quick overview of how things were accomplished, even if there are variations in approach.

The nice thing about the term "Skin Out" is that it does not take 3 paragraphs to explain and it eliminates all of the shenanigans employed by Competition Gram Weenies to show a low weight in some category.

Regardless of sub-categories, "Skin Out" speaks the truth.

then you run into the situation of which clothes you are "wearing" that you don't include in your base weight.

I have seen some SUL lists but they don't include most of their clothes because they are "wearing" them.

I include everything except food/water/fuel and a very minimum set of clothes, shoes/socks/lightest weight shorts and shirt plus my trekking poles. All other clothes are included in the base weight.

What is really important is that you keep it consistant for yourself but you can't always compare your base weight to someone elses.

As an accountant (retired), I prefer to use the terms "fixed weight" and "variable weight." The "fixed" items go on every trip, whether an overnighter or a 10-dayer, and their weight is the same regardless of length of trip. The "variable" items vary in weight according to the length of the trip. I include toilet articles (sunscreen, bug repellent, tooth powder, TP [please stay out of this one, Mike C; I have a medical condition which requires both TP and moist towlettes]) in the "variable" category along with the normal fuel, food and water. Most lists, however, put them in "base" weight. Water, of course, is a special case, the amount you carry depending on frequency of water sources encountered each day rather than the length of the trip. However you want to make the separation, calculating your total pack weight (the pack and everything in it) when planning is made easier by separating the consumables from the items that are always there.

IMHO, "skin-out" weight is probably the most important item–it's the total amount of external weight your feet have to carry. Most of my weight savings in the past year have been in the "skin-out" category, specifically footwear (switching from boots to trail runners) and trekking poles (from aluminum to carbon fiber).

I've always wondered why so many lists published on this site (especially in the >5 lb. category) omit a camera–even when including photos of the latest outing!

For my last trip, both my and my dog's total pack weights came out a pound lighter than I'd calculated on my spreadsheets. This led to a frantic re-checking to see if I'd forgotten anything–but I hadn't! I still don't know what caused the difference–probably a miscalculation of the average weight of food items–but I'm not going to fuss about it. I need to cut the food back more anyway–I couldn't manage to finish any of my dinners and probably carried out more in leftover rehydrated food than the dehydrated items I carried in.

Some of the weights are problematic anyway. The sopping wet tent, plus debris you tracked in and couldn't clean out, that you pack up after a night of rain, is not exactly the dry tent with which you started out! On my trip last week, my dog got sick. I had to curtail the trip and ended up carrying over half his pack weight. He wasn't eating much, so he wasn't consuming his food, either. I did defy LNT principles (something I really hate to do) by burying what he barfed up, though.

I find, however, that the detailed list is extremely useful for planning purposes, both in figuring out how long I can comfortably stay out and in making sure I have what I need but nothing more. That's a lot more important than trying to imitate–or compete–with others!

I think it depends largely on why you're doing the "accounting." Most people would consider base pack weight to be anything non-consumable in your pack. Other stuff would count to your "skin out" weight. I'd like to think that people use gear lists as a way to evaluate their choices and educate themselves and others, but I know the competitive spirit gets the best of many.

It's pretty funny to read through someone's pack list, then see that their "worn" clothing includes, say, a fleece jacket, down vest and rain gear. They're trying to get a low "base pack weight" just to have that low number. Who are such people trying to "trick?" Is it for gear list competition, or are they just trying to trick themselves into–or making themselves feel as though–they've reached some phase of lightness?

Personally, I think it has to do with hiking style and intent, and that probably has much to do with why there seem to be so many interpretations of what base weight is or could be. Example? Kind of in contrast to my previous example, I carry a survival kit and knife on my person. It's not in my pack, so I don't count it as pack weight. Some people think I'm somehow "cheating" by not counting those items as part of my pack weight… but I don't really care. Go ahead–Add my skin-out "worn" weight to my base pack weight and I'm still under 12 pounds. I'm not trying to falsely portray my pack weight to myself or others, or get under a magical number. (Well, okay, I'd love to get in the 7 pound range someday. Just 'cause. Seems like a fun exercise.) It's not really about bean counting for me. (And yet it kind of is, isn't it?!) The stuff in my pack will weigh down my shoulders, hips and so forth. That's the weight I'm most interested in. I'm not concerned with how much weight my legs are carrying, although I can understand why some people are.
Ultimately gear lists are about cognizance. They are tools to help us realize what we're carrying, and hopefully why.

Although people may differ in how they account for total weight on your person, I think 'most everyone could agree: base weight is the non-consumables in your pack. skin-out weight is everything non-consumable on your person. Depending on your philosophy and approach to ultralight, you might put more importance on either skin-out or pack weight.