Newbie’s gear list… suggestions are welcome

Hi Steve,

I'd go for a simple gas canister stove. They're about a quarter of the weight, you don't have to prime them, they are more efficient (they use less fuel) and they are much easier and safer to use.

MSR makes one called the "Pocket Rocket". There are a heap of other brands though, some even come with piezo ignition.

Have a good trip!

Steve, welcome aboard. It’s great that you are trying to get your kids outdoors, and you’ll find a great resource here to help give some suggestions.

The 1st thing I would suggest to you is to buy the best gear you can afford right off the bat. Sometimes cheaper gear can be heavier (though not always). That doesn’t mean break the bank, just do your homework.

For example, for a little more you can save 6oz and pick up 20degrees of warmth with the Campmor 20 degree mummy. Also, instead of the MSR Dragonfly, how about the MSR Pocket Rocket . The saving on the stove could offset the additional cost of the bag.

Also, check the gear swap here and at other sites. Sometimes you’ll discover some great bargains that have been lightly used.

Thanks for the reply… my train of thought on that choice was a matter of being 4-season capable. I am also left with the impression that canister stoves are okay for one or two people, not three or more. Maybe I am wrong.

I have nothing against the canister stoves…

BTW- can anyone recommend cookware? I need a pot and pan as well as silverware.

Many thanks!!!

I've looked through campmor's selection and I may order from them instead. Thanks for the recommendation. The stove issue is kinda confusing for me. I might opt for the lighter weight canister stove instead of the liquid bottle.

Replies are great!! Keep 'em coming!!!

I have used cannister stoves for groups of 4 with no problem. I would suggest a cookpot in the 1.5 to 2 liter range for most needs.If you are budget minded aluminum is cheaper than titanium, but either would be a good choice. The last trip I used a cannister stove on I carried the Evernew 1.3L UL titanium cookpot, and it was fine for 3 men and 1 youth, but we were only boiling water for tea, coffee, and freezerbag cooking. If you are actually going to cook in your pot for 3-4 you might want something a little bigger, and maybe non-stick ti or aluminum. As far as cutlery, plasticware works just as well as anything, and sporks also work well. There is usually little need for a knife, and most meals can be eaten with just a spoon.

What meals are you planning? I just boil and rehydrate, so only use a pot (no pan). If you rehydrate in a bag, there's no mess to clean up–you could bag each portion individually, or use one bag and serve out into cups. I use a kmart "grease pot" to boil water, but that's too small for three–open country makes an aluminum 2 qt. pot that costs about $10 and weighs (according to them) .26 lbs, or a little over 4 oz. Campmor sells them, too.

GSI makes durable plastic cups that hold 1.5 cups and weigh 1.7 oz–cost >$3. For "silverware" I like the Light My Fire spork–.4 oz., $2.99 at BPL store, and everyone can have their own color. Or you could just bring spoons from home for the first couple trips–the extra couple oz won't hurt (much). I hardly ever use anything but a spoon.

My two two oldest sons and I are planning a 2 day trip over Labor Day weekend. It will be a combo of BP'ing and car-camping. We are slowly adding to my inventory of gear as funds allow. We plan on some multi-day trips as we get further into the fall.

"As funds allow" I hear you; everyone has that constraint. Just looking over your list, it looks like you'll be spending a lot of money in order to gear up for both 3 season and 4 season BP'ing & camping. One thing you might think about: Instead of immediately gearing up for both 3 and 4 season outings, gear up for just 3 season for now. If you gear up for both, you'll have to buy cheaper gear that you'll wind up wanting to replace in a year or two. The lesson I've learned over time is to buy gear that's really going to work for me. Otherwise, I wind up with gear that I don't like and doesn't work well for me, and I replace it in a year or two.

Buying twice does not save money. Buy the right gear the first time if you possibly can.

I don't know where you are, but many outfitters will have rental gear. I'd rent first, really get an idea of what I like and what works for me, and then buy. Just some thoughts.

Here is what I have so far:
Osprey Talon 22 (for day hikes… also volley with a SAR team so it also is my search pack)

Good pack; I've got the next size up. The 22 is pretty small for an overnight pack.

Cabelas two-man tent with rain fly (bought used)

Well, if there are three of you, you may need another shelter. Again, I would rent first if possible (I have no idea what's available in your area). Another option, depending on where you plan to hike and what conditions you'll face is a tarp. A tarp will be far lighter and cheaper than a tent. A large tarp should accomodate all three of you.

Items I will be ordering this week:
MSR Dragonfly stove

The MSR Dragonfly is a good stove (I've got one), but it's heavy and expensive. You might think about other alternatives. If you want a 4 season stove that you can use all year, a liquid fueled stove is a good choice, but I might go with the MSR Simmerlite which is lighter and cheaper.

I started out with a liquid fueled stove and used it for everything (all seasons) for a number of years. Eventually, when I could work it into the budget, I bought a canister stove. A canister stove is far lighter (and generally a lot cheaper) than a liquid fueled stove.

So, buy a liquid fueled stove now but don't get the D'fly; get something lighter and less expensive. When you can, buy a canister stove for 3 season use.

Eureka Cheyenne sleeping bag (40+ degrees)

The Eureka Cheyenne at 2.75 pounds is a pretty heavy bag for a 40F degree bag. My 32F bag weighs 1 pound. You'd be carrying about 3 times the weight for a lesser bag.

Bags are a good thing to rent until you can put together the money to buy a bag you really want. If you stick with backpacking, you won't stick with a cheap bag like the Eureka Cheyenne.

If you really want to buy: Sleeping bags are expensive, so maybe the Eureka Cheyenne is the best you can practically afford, but I'd shop around first. Cabelas in general is a store I'd steer clear of for backpacking gear. Nothing wrong per se with them, but Cabelas is more geared to hunters and fishermen. Gear for hunters and fishermen is generally much heavier than that for hikers and backpackers. What Cabelas calls "lightweight" is what we call "heavyweight" here. Seriously. When you see "lightweight" or "ultralight" on a hunting or fishing site, disregard it. What's lightweight to them is something most of us here would never even consider buying.

If you really want to buy rather than rent, here's a couple of sites (there are dozens of others) that you can get cheaper gear at:
http://www.campmor.com
http://www.SierraTradingPost.com

Cabelas XPG sleeping pads

Again, I'd generally steer clear of Cabelas. However, these don't look too bad. If you need to buy 3 pads, that gets pretty expensive if you get the good ones. However, note that these pads are the self inflating variety. Self inflating pads, in my experience, are more comfortable but are heavier than closed cell foam pads (like the Thermarest Z-Lite for example). I personally can't sleep very well on closed cell foam, so I carry a self inflating type mattress. I carry a 3/4 length, 1.0" thick pad to save weight, but a 3/4 length pad is only for 3 season use. A good 3/4 length 1.0" thick pad comes in at about 0.75 pounds. By comparison, the Cabelas short pad weighs 1.25 pounds.

If you're trying to get a pad that will be of year-round use, get a full length. A few years later, when you've saved up some money, you can get a 3/4 length pad to save weight for 3 season use.

I will also need a larger pack and maybe lighter tent before winter comes… as well as a warmer bag.

Lighter tent? For winter, tents are generally heavier although you may be able to find something lighter since your current tent is from Cabelas.

Suggestions welcome. We intend to camp thru the colder months if the boys are into it. I used to camp in 0 degree weather when I was a kid.

Good luck and have fun!

i'd probably just buy foam pads from walmart for your boys. kids don't really need the 1"-2.5" of air goodness that us older, more brittle-boned and sore muscles folk do

i'd really look hard at the gear swap here and at http://www.whiteblaze.net for a tent. no need to buy that new. perhaps consider a 1 person tent for you and a 2 person tent for them instead of a 3 person tent for all of you. that way if you go out solo, you don't have to lug the big tent

sleeping bags i'd look here for now:

http://www.rei.com/product/767276?preferredSku=7672760035&cm_mmc=cse_froogle-_-datafeed-_-product-_-7672760035&mr:trackingCode=55F9088F-0419-DE11-B4E3-0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA

those are good down to 50, and weigh 20 ozs. a pretty good deal at $44…

i'd take your boys out in early fall and make sure they like it before you start outfitting them w/ winter/cold weather gear. as the guy above me posted, it can get expensive

You don't say how old your boys are–whether they are likely to outgrow their gear or not. Adult-sized bags can be colder for kids just as too-large bags can be colder for adults. But I haven't found any kid-sized bags that were significantly cheaper or lighter than adult bags. When I have the time, I'm planning MYOG quilts.

My two girl (8 and 15) sleep comfortably on closed cell foam pads, even if I wouldn't. Z-rest or Ridgerest are nice, although I just use the inexpensive ones from big box stores, ~$10, which I cut down to 3/4 size. Weight is 5-7 oz.

My oldest girl does great with hiking poles, my youngest not so much. She'll use one for a quarter mile and then starts dragging it. My poles are adjustable, so I just loan her one of mine for the two or three times during a hike she wants to use it.

I mostly use a MYOG alcohol stove. Since the stove is cheap (free) and quick to make, I made another that my oldest daughter carries as well. A bit redundant, but the weight isn't significant, we boil water twice as fast with 2 stoves, and she learns how to use the gear. She carries all her own stuff (she's 5' and 100#) except I carry most of the tent; her total pack weight starting a 3 day was ~ 16#. My youngest (4' and 60#) carries her clothes, sleeping bag, and pad, plus some water and snacks–I keep her total pack weight down to 10% body weight or less. If she's dragging a bit, I try to take weight from her unobtrusively (e.g., when she takes off her jacket, I'll put it in my pack rather than hers).

These are great replies… lots of info. I should have mentioned that we already have two heavy-ish bags that I bought from Bass Pro or Cabelas a year ago. I think they are zero-degree rated or something very close to that.

I'm hearing you all on the "buy right the first time" concept. I tend to agree with that.

I thought I had mentioned that this first little adventure will be a car-camping/BP'ing adventure. I will not be humping the entire load all day. We are parking our truck on some private woodland and then day-hiking some trails. The boys will be sleeping in the tent while I'll most likely sleep in the back of the truck (I have a cap).

I agree that buying the right gear the first time is going to be cheaper. I'm still learning that the hard way.

Walmart blue foam pads for the boys are cheap and light. You can even cut them smaller for more weight/size savings.

Walmart also has some cheap flick lock treking poles that are sturdy and kind of light. My Walmart pole recently sacrificed itself to save me from a fall into a bayou. Bending a $12 pole didn't hurt my wallet much.

I have used the Whisperlite and the Dragonfly. Both are excellent stoves, but they are big, heavy, and expensive. Pocket Rocket is the way to go.

When you are considering shelters, < 2 lbs / person is good.

When you are considering sleeping bags, < 2 lbs / person is good. I like the campmor down bag for the budget minded. I like the Marmot Helium and Hydrogen down bags for weight and quality.

Osprey packs are good. I'd encourage you to look at the REI Flash packs too.

acronym 8/9/2009 12:26 PM

Would my local wal-mart/k-mart carry these? We don't have any real outdoor stores in our area.

Or… on second thought, does anyone have plans to build an alky stove?? I've found several plans on the web but they lack good photos.

Thanks!!

I like this one a lot:

http://www.csun.edu/~mjurey/penny.html

This one works well, too, (but not with all pots) and is probably the simplest:

http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/index.html

Steve, send me an email and I'll hook you up with a couple of stoves. I usually have a couple laying around I save for friends and such.

Also take a look at the stove plan on andrewskurka.com

I second the stove that Andy Skurka uses. It's not the most efficient, but it's so doggone simple to use and there's nothing on it to go wrong. Also, with the Skurka type stove, you don't even have to bring a stove stand to put your pot on (for small pots — bigger pots are still going to need something).

I've got a more efficient alcohol stove, but it's hard to add fuel and kind of fussy to get it to light.