pack weight creeping up

[John Ben]

Ok so I thought I was doing ok for an ultralight pack but I think ive gone way out of that realm now. I was able to fit enough for a 5 day trip in the REI flash 30 pack which is pretty small, but it was really uncomfortable after walking around with it. After trying a bunch of packs out, the only one that didnt make me sore or rub the wrong way was the deuter 42. But its 3 lbs 14oz!

The rest of my gear is like this roughly:

Marmot Hydrogen/Neoair/TT double rainbow – 5 lbs
Extra clothing/hat/goves/long johns – 1.5 lbs
GG trek poles – 8oz
stove/med kit/toiletries/BD spot/compass/map – 1.2 lbs
Binoculars/tripod/camera – 2 lbs

My pack weight ends up being about 13 lbs. With food and water it will be over 20. :(

I dont think im very good at packing light. Some of the gear lists I see are hovering around 5 lbs! Thats insane.

[Ryan Linn]

Nothing too shabby about 13 pounds, especially considering the pack itself + binoculars, tripod and camera make up almost half that weight!

Once most people hit 10 pounds it gets exponentially harder to decrease weight from there to 5 pounds. You could probably trim some excess weight off your pack just by shaving off ounces here and there.

Without a full gear list, I can't recommend exact changes, but I'd say even with 20 pounds at the start of the trip, you're not going to break your back.

[David Drake]

Have you tried one of Osprey's Exos line? I have a 58 in medium, about 2# 4 oz. The 46 is even lighter–significantly below 2#. They've been well reviewed on this site, and for me the Exos 58 is incredibly comfortable and compresses well enough I don't mind having the extra volume when I'm carrying less (I don't yet have the luxury of a different pack for each season/situation).

[Sanad Toukhly]

You may want to consider changing your shelter. IMO, the TT double rainbow is way too heavy for solo use.
Also, you could probably save some weight by switching from a bag to a quilt.
I would ditch the binoculars as well since you are carrying a camera.

We could probably provide you with much better help if you posted a detailed gear list.

-Sid

[Tom Caldwell]

"TT double rainbow is way too heavy for solo use"

At 32 oz for everything in a stuffsack, it's not that bad, depending on where you're using it. When you consider using a tarp, bivy, ground cover, bug net, tie outs, stakes, it's not THAT HEAVY.

I'm always reminded that the top of the page says "The Community of Lightweight Hiking and Backcountry Travel"

It doesn't say "Ultralight".

EDIT: Oops, I need to get my eyes checked. For some reason, I didn't notice the word DOUBLE. Yes, a Double Rainbow is a little heavy for solo use!

[Jim MacDiarmid]

As far as packs, if the Exos series wasn't one that you tried on, I can 2nd it. I went with a Gossamer Gear Gorilla myself, but I tried the Exos and like it, the Gorilla was just lighter. If you can fit your stuff in a 30 liter pack, there's an Exos 34 that's only 2lb 2oz) and if drop the detachable lid, it's under 2lbs.

What was your packweight before? BPL kind of resets your mindset so that what seemed ridiculous before seems just average now.

Last summer I was carry 37lb packs for overnighters(w/food+ water). This last week I've been staring at a gear list for a 3 night, 4 day trip with a base weight of 11lb (17.5lb food/water) and wondering why I can't get my baseweight below 10lbs (answer: bear cannister). But I've seriously been bothered because I read all these sub 10lb lists and wonder where I'm going wrong.

The thing is though, I can comfortably carry 17.5lbs, my shoulders don't get sore, I don't feel like I'm going to tip backwards walking uphill. I could go lower (lighter pack, stuff made from cuben, etc) and I will eventually, but it's not like last year when my shoulders ached after 6 miles.

20lbs total weight is pretty good. To get below that, you'd have to consider a lighter tent or tarp combo, you could save 11 oz by dropping serious money on a Nunatak Specialist Quilt instead of the hydrogen (or less money and save 8oz on a JRB No Sniveler), but that's more money.

As long as you can hike your hike in comfort, getting lower is just a challenge and a long term goal that requires further adjustment of mindset as to what is necessary to you.

[John Ben]

I actually did try on two of the exos packs. I LOVED them and would have bought it on the spot if it werent for one problem. The fabric that connects the shoulder straps at the top was rubbing my vertibrae. It was very uncomfortable. I am right between a medium and large however and they didnt have the medium size so im hoping that will fix the rubbing issue. Then I will have a pack I can be totally happy with.

As far as what my pack was before, I was at 20oz with a REI flash 30. 24oz with the backpanel insert and zippers. Both configurations were pretty uncomfortable on my lower back.

[Jim MacDiarmid]

I have the last years model, the REI Flash 35. I like it a lot, and it'd be great for a 1-2 night non-bear cannister trip. I got mine down to 17 oz by taking out the back frame, taking out the hydration pocket, taking off the cord zipper pulls, and doing some trimming of extraneous cords and strap lengths. Once my girfriend teaches me to sew, I want to add a mesh back pocket rather than the shock cord. Then it's be ideal.

Pack fit is something it's worth going up a little in weight for, as you probably won't notice the 8 oz or whatever, but you will notice if it rubs you wrong.

[John Ben]

Well for me I am going from 20 oz to 62 oz. :( Im going to try to stiffen up the flash 30 and put my clothes on the bottom instead of my sleeping bag to prevent the base from rolling outward.

[Sanad Toukhly]

Tom,
you are right, I suppose for lightweight backpacking, TT double rainbow would not be too bad. However, my solo shelter (tarp/bivy) weighs 15 oz total. Comparing it to my shelter, I would find it too heavy, being that my shelter weighs less than half the weight of the TT double rainbow. I simply pointed out to him the easiest way to cut weight, as he seemed to be concerned about his pack weight being too heavy.

[Troy Ammons]

Overall your setup does not sound that bad to me. One thing I will say is that after you slug along for miles and miles with an uncomfortable pack, it can only get worse and a 20# ill fitting pack can feel much worse than a 30# properly fitted pack. You could probably find one closer to 2.5#-3# that would do the job though. I am woring on a superlight frame pack, but done know when I will ever finish it.

Although the big 3 are the starting place to lose weight, As for myself, I need some amount of comfort for a long trail hike.

Your sleeping gear looks fine. Neoair is worth it.

The tent is a tad heavy and a single rainbow would be better for a solo hike although you are only talking 8 oz or so with a lot more room. You could lose a lot more weight, with a bivy and a tarp or a subsil tent, but like you, I also prefer a more roomy tent. In that tent, you can sit up bug free, change your clothes in the rain, bathtub floor etc.

I guess part of the tent equation comes into where you will hike, like on the AT if you were going to sleep a lot under shelters, would would probably be better off with a small 6oz 1 person bug tent or a bivy then add a tarp for sleeping out.

My goal for a summer pack, 5 days of food, 2qts of h20 is around 17-18# Winter under 24#. To do that takes a lot of cutting back and $ and a larger tent is definately out unless I build one out of superlight materials which is very expensive.

[John Tyberg]

I think you have a nice kit. I tried that REI pack and it wasn't comfortable for me either.

You maybe could decrease your cooking/lighting/navigation weight fairly cheaply and easily. Use a photo freedom for light and a small esbit or alcohol stove and an aluminum cookpot for cooking.

You can also save weight by leaving any extra clothes at home. I just sleep in the same clothes I hike in, and I wear my insulation layer and driducks to bed, too. I haven't missed my long johns too much even though it's nice to wear something clean to bed.

[John Ben]

My BD spot is only 3 ounces and puts out tons of light so I figure thats a very small price to pay for the luxury of a potentially life saving feature like a very bright flood light.

My cooking system is about as light as I can get. I have the GG fosters/esbit grahm cracker so I should be ok on that end.

What do you guys put in your med pack? I have a few things I know I dont need like (a mini sharpee and a mini deck of playing cards) I bought a premade 0.3 oz med kit from REI which is pretty basic but could be lighter.

I am debating replacing my platy bladders with a camel back for my pack. Do you guys think they are worth it?

[Gary Boyd]

If you want to use a hydration pack (which I don't recommend) then use a Platy Hoser as it weighs considerably less than a Camelbak.

[Jim MacDiarmid]

I agree, I went from Camelbak to Platypus because of the weigh issue. Haven't had any durability problems with Platypus.

[Mike Clelland]

John Ben –

Please – I encourage you to Post your entire gear list, with the weights. This is easier than you think – and EVERY lightweight camper does it. It's a really rewarding exercize.

M!

[John Ben]

How do I find a scale that measures ounces? They didnt sell any at dic*ks or REI.

[Jim MacDiarmid]

Office Max, Office Depot, someplace like that. If you're gonna get a digital, makes sure it weighs to .1 oz. I use a a non-digital at work so I have to eyeball to the quarter ounce.

Or just google Digital Postal Scale or Kitchen Scale.

[John Ben]

Ok heres my gear list:

marmot hydrogen – 28 oz
deuter 42L pack – 61 oz
TT DR/stuff sack- 35 oz
tent poles – 8.1 oz
tent stakes – 2.1 oz
neo air – 12.9 oz
neo air stufsac – 0.4 oz

total – 147.5 = 9.2 lbs

lightrek 4 poles- 7 oz
knife – 0.9 oz
BD spot light – 3.1 oz
ultrathon bug – 2.4 oz
8-24x binocs – 13.8 oz
camera – 8 oz
camera case – 3.2 oz
shovel – 1.8 oz
steripen – 4.1 oz
toilet paper – 0.8 oz
hand soap – 0.4 oz
toothbrush – 0.1 oz
toilet stuffsac – 0.1 oz
hand sanitizer – 0.5 oz
sunscreen – 1 oz

total – 40.2 = 2.5 lbs

med kit – 2.4 oz
compass – 0.9 oz
map – 1.1 oz
clock/light – 0.2 oz

total – 4.6 = 0.28 lbs

cap 1 shirt – 4.9 oz
nike shirt – 5 oz
nike shirt 2 – 4.2 oz
cap 2 long sleeve – 5.8 oz
rain shield – 4.9 oz
wright socks – 1.1 oz (2)
sun hat – 4 oz
mosquito net – 1 oz
long johns – 2.5 oz
fleece hat – 0.8 oz
gloves – 1.4 oz
hankercheif – 0.8 oz
platy 1L – 0.8 oz (2)

total – 33.3 = 2 lbs

Caldera Cone – 1 oz
Fosters Can – 0.88 oz
Lid – 0.2 oz
G Cracker Stand – 0.1 oz
Small BeerBand – 0.2 oz
Large BeerBand – 0.3 oz
Stuff Sac – 0.01 oz
Cozy – 0.2 oz
Caldera Caddy – 2.6 oz
Esbit fuel – 0.5 oz (x18)
mini bic lighter- 0.4 oz
ti spoon – 0.5 oz

total – 15.38 = 1 lb

possible luxuries:

mini playing cards – 1.5 oz
mini sharpee – 0.2 oz
camp stool – 18 oz
camera tripod – 1.6 oz

total – 21.3 = 1.33 lbs

cumulative base total – 240.98 = 15 lbs
with food for 6 days – 300.98 = 18.8 lbs
with 2 L of water = 23.2 lbs
with luxuries = 24.5 lbs

See any place I can shave off weight besides my pack (its the only one so far thats comfortable for me) Also I will probably carry a can of bear spray with me so that will add even more weight.

[Troy Ammons]

You can still lose weight in some areas, here and there.
You can probably lose another 3-4#.

Besides the pack.

How about a monocular instead of binocs.
Lighter camera. There is one that weighs like 4 oz.
Cant remember the name though.
Skip the case and put it in a baggie.

You sure these weights below are right ?? My silk tops and bottoms weigh 10oz

long johns – 2.5 oz
fleece hat – 0.8 oz
gloves – 1.4 oz

A 1 qt platy is about 1.5 oz, I think
platy 1L – 0.8 oz (2)

Skip the camping stool

If I am reading this right you are only allowing 3.8# of food for 6 days. Not enough. Should be like 16-20oz per day as a min depending. Maybe more. You have only 10 oz per day which is not enough calories.

If you rework your numbers with 20oz of food per day your total with 2L of water would be more like 27# which is still not too terribly bad. Could still be lighter though.
Try to rework it for a 12#-13# base back for colder weather. 6#-8# for summer.

[Jim MacDiarmid]

Where are you going? What's the weather? That's important?

It looks good, but you have 4 different shirts. That seems like a lot. For my 3 night, 4 day trip to Yosemite, I'm bringing the clothes I'm wearing and one silk long sleeve shirt to sleep in. And there are people here who would call that extra shirt a luxury.

What's the shovel for? You can dig a cat hole with your tent stake, or a stick.

Is it necessary to carry 2L of water? I don't use a steripen, but doesn't it take like 1 minute to purify water. 2L is only needed if water sources are few and far between, or it's really hot. 1L would be ~2lbs dropped.

2.4 oz is a lot of bug spray. Maybe consider treating your clothes with permithrin and bringing less(or repackaging in a smaller container). Or buy 100% DEET and use less.

Hand soap and sanitizer? Bring sanitizer. Clean your hand with water and then sanitize. Or wash with soap and drop the sanitizer.

You could buy lighter titanium shepards hook stakes and save weight. They work fine with a tent like the DR as long as the ground isn't super rocky and it's not hurricane type weather. Probably save an ounce.

Can you fit the NeoAir in the DR stuff sack? Or another? I keep mine with my quilt, away from sharp stuff.

Mike C! would have you drop the TP (I bring it) and drop the knife for a .1oz straight razor.

Can your camera fit in your pocket?

[John Ben]

"Lighter camera. There is one that weighs like 4 oz."

This one im willing to make an exception for its the Lumix zs3. Wide angle, 12x zoom, leica lenses, takes amazing pictures.

"How about a monocular instead of binocs."

Im thinking i might not need binocs at all with 12x zoom but im not sure if i want to waste batteries looking at things on a 3" LCD screen.

"Skip the case and put it in a baggie."

Like a zip loc bag?

"You sure these weights below are right ?? My silk tops and bottoms weigh 10oz"

They should be. I bought special super light long underwear from Brazil. They look sort of like nylons without the feet. Very light. The hat is a microdome hat and I was surprised it even registered let alone 0.8 oz. But if my platy is off like you say, these might too. It was a cheap $35 digital scale.

"Skip the camping stool"

Im thinking this might be nice to have to give my legs a rest every now and that and keep my pants clean and dry. I dont know if thats worth 18oz though.

What do you think the best way to reach 8# base is?

[Ashley Brown]

What do you think the best way to reach 8# base is?

Check out Alan Dixon's 9lb "full comfort" gear list. Pretty cool.

[John Ben]

"Where are you going? What's the weather? That's important?"

Glacier national park. The weather looks to be pretty cold so far. Everything is below freezing at night and around 60 during the day. Im betting it will get into the mid 80s while we are there though.

"It looks good, but you have 4 different shirts. That seems like a lot. For my 3 night, 4 day trip to Yosemite, I'm bringing the clothes I'm wearing and one silk long sleeve shirt to sleep in. And there are people here who would call that extra shirt a luxury."

Yeah good call. I will take a few shirts out of there. My concern is that the lightest shirt is black and will make me warm. Not sure how big of a factor that is though.

"Is it necessary to carry 2L of water? I don't use a steripen, but doesn't it take like 1 minute to purify water. 2L is only needed if water sources are few and far between, or it's really hot. 1L would be ~2lbs dropped."

Im not familiar with the area so I will probably carry two just because I sweat a lot and go through water very fast. I can adjust as I go though. One part of my hike crosses like 5 rivers a day. I will probably carry 1L for that portion.

"2.4 oz is a lot of bug spray. Maybe consider treating your clothes with permithrin and bringing less(or repackaging in a smaller container). Or buy 100% DEET and use less."

The ultrathon is supposed to be amazing but its pricy. I would empty some out to make it lighter but it costs so much I just cant seem to do it.

"Hand soap and sanitizer? Bring sanitizer. Clean your hand with water and then sanitize. Or wash with soap and drop the sanitizer."

Is one better than the other for all around use? ie. Can I wash my pot out with hand sanitizer?

"You could buy lighter titanium shepards hook stakes and save weight. They work fine with a tent like the DR as long as the ground isn't super rocky and it's not hurricane type weather. Probably save an ounce."

I will check those out. Thanks.

"Can you fit the NeoAir in the DR stuff sack? Or another? I keep mine with my quilt, away from sharp stuff. "

Good call! I can put that into the DR stuff sack and use it to compress the tent down. That will eliminate my compression sack. I like it!

"Mike C! would have you drop the TP (I bring it) and drop the knife for a .1oz straight razor."

Im too domesticated to risk getting p00p on my hands to save an ounce. The TP goes with me for sure. And I dont know where I would keep my razor so that it wouldnt poke holes in my gear. Suggestions?

"Can your camera fit in your pocket?"

It can but it wouldnt be comfortable at all. I dont like stuff in my pockets. Its a pretty expensive camera too so Id be ok carrying an extra ounce of pouch to protect it and keep it secure.

[Jim MacDiarmid]

One thing I've certainly picked up here is to minimize stuff sacks. I always used them to keep things organized. Then I found it's even easier to stay organized if I bring less gear.

Is one better than the other for all around use? ie. Can I wash my pot out with hand sanitizer?

I just rinse my pot when I actually eat out of it. It's not like the food is in there long enough to stick to the sides. As far as germs, I'm boiling water in it, so that kills those. But now I eat Mountain House singles, which I eat out of the bag, so the pot never gets dirty. If you want soap, and you're using something concentrated like Dr. Bronners, get something like the BPL micro droppers. I use them for my baking soda toothpaste, sanitizer, and DEET.

The ultrathon is supposed to be amazing but its pricy. I would empty some out to make it lighter but it costs so much I just cant seem to do it.

I don't know the mosquito situation in GNP. I was in Desolation Wilderness in the Sierra's 3 weeks ago. Mosquitos were awful. I had a headnet + permethrin treated clothes and .1 oz of REI Jungle Juice (99.8% DEET). I wish I'd just brought the 2 oz spray of the Jungle Juice, as I got bit all up in the morning. If skeeters are really bad, the extra 2oz are worth it. When I go to Yosemite this week, I'll at least have the spray in the car, so if the rangers say the mosquitos are out, I can bring it.

And I dont know where I would keep my razor so that it wouldnt poke holes in my gear. Suggestions?

Put a piece of duct tape over the blade.

It can but it wouldnt be comfortable at all. I dont like stuff in my pockets. Its a pretty expensive camera too so Id be ok carrying an extra ounce of pouch to protect it and keep it secure

Me too. I carry a case myself, just suggesting ways to drop a couple ounces.

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