Diet for High Mileage Long Hikes

I just made up an interesting breakfast mixture.

in a plastic bag I put in a half cup of irish oatmeal, or whole oats, and a half cup of raisins and a quarter cup mashed almonds, including calories from fat, this mixture is just less than 500 calories and with the raisins, it dosent taste half bad, even when eaten dry, and if eaten with a natures valley granola bar, you have a breakfast at almost 700 calories.

sounds good to me

In looking back, I notice I never actually answered Ryan’s final question as to how far a hiker can walk unsupported. Obviously, a precise answer is impossible. But certainly we can make some reasonable estimates.

Instead of 40 miles/day, let’s back off to 20 miles/day. That allows for 25 miles on most days, but a few short days in case of bad weather or physical or mental exhaustion. 25 miles at 2.5 miles/hour means 10 hours of walking, which is quite a lot. Anything more than that and I think the body or mind or both are likely to get stressed out, opening the door to injuries and illnesses.

Instead of these ridiculous estimates of 6000, 7000, or even 9000 calories/day (who will be the first to argue for 10,000?), let us assume a more reasonable 5200/day. The military estimates a combat soldier needs 4500, so we are being quite generous, in my opinion. One of the posters arguing for 9000 calories/day concluded with a most apt remark about “your mileage may vary”. Indeed it may. If you drive a car with one foot pressing on the accelearator and the other foot pressing on the brake, then your mileage may drop under 1 mpg, while your brakes are destroyed in the process. It is certainly possible to do something analogous with our bodies, but I’m going to assume we’re a little smarter than that.

Now assume our hiker normally weighs 165 pounds, with 15% body fat, of which 5% is essential and 10% expendable. Let us further assume our hiker bulks up beforehand to 180 lbs. I think I can speak for the majority of Americans that adding 15 pounds is not too difficult. (Yes, there are some exceptions to this rule. Some people simply can’t pack on extra weight.) So our hiker will have more than 30 pounds of fat he can afford to burn off.

Now assume our hiker carries a base pack weight of 12 pounds, plus 3 pounds of water, plus 30 pounds of a mixture of plain rolled oats and non-fat powdered milk, so his beginning pack weight is 45 pounds, which is doable even with most ultralight packs, considering that this initial weight will be dropping rapidly and the average weight will be under 30 lbs. Included in the 12 pound base weight is some light salt (50/50 potassium chloride, sodium chloride) and some vitamin pills.

The oats/milk mixture gives about 1700 calories/pound. This includes at least 50 grams of protein and possibly much more, depending on the percentage of milk, which is adequate protein. The oats/milk mixiture does not contain adequate vitamins, especially vitamin C, and thus must be supplemented. The body fat gives about 3500 calories/pound. If the hiker eats a pound of oats-milk/day and burns a pound of fat/day, then he will be able to go 30 days burning 5200 calories/day, without needing to burn any muscle. At 20 miles/day, our hiker can thus walk about 600 miles unsupported before he needs to burn off muscle. At the end of this 600 miles, our hiker will weigh about 150 pounds and look lean, but hardly unhealthy.

Speaking from personal experience, the weight fluctuations described above are nothing extreme. I recall weighing about 175 pounds playing football in high school but 150 pounds when running track. I weighed over 185 pounds at one point during my thirties. My current weight is about 165 pounds. This is for a man who is 5’11” tall and average build.

The estimate of 5200 calories/day was just pulled from the air, and I think it is high. The reason I think this is my reading about how our ancestors lived and how primitive peoples live today. I think even 4000 calories/day is generous. By walking gracefull, so as to avoid wasting energy, it might well be possible to walk 20 miles/day without burning any more energy than we burn when lying about the house doing nothing. Thus it might well be possible to walk two months or 1200 miles unsupported.

The interest in this discussion is not unsurprising, nor are some of the hysterical responses, which are very reminiscent of the hysterical reactions to the early proponents of lightweight backpacking. “Tarps are never going to work!” or “It’s suicide to hike in the mountains without heavy boots!” Remember all that? Those of us who were once heavyweight hikers probably reacted thus ourselves initially when we heard of other people hiking with 10 pound base weights. No one likes to change habits and relearn everything from scratch or be forced to replace one set of expensive gear with a new set. But after we calm down, we realize that the change is for the best.

In my opinion, nutrition is the next great frontier in long-distance lightweight hiking. No, the average hiker does not need 9000 calories/day. And no, hikers do not need to cook their food nor will they much care after the first few days whether the food is cooked or not, or spicy or not (though salty-tasting may be highly desireable). All that matters is that the food be nutritious.

What the above example shows is that most long-distance hikers are probably carrying way more food than they really need. Instead of bringing along olive oil and other fats, why not just carry the fat on our bodies and burn it off as needed? During periodic town stops, eat heavily so as to rebuild the fat reserves. Most long-distance hikers actually end up doing exactly this, though not intentionally and thus probably not optimally. In particular, many hikers tend to rush through the towns. What they should do instead is linger a while, at least one day and perhaps two, so as to pack in as many fattening meals as possible before setting off on the trail again. The time lost during the town stops can be regained by walking longer on the hiking days, due to carrying a much lighter pack and not needing to spend so much time preparing and eating meals.

All this business of special food drinks and diets etc seems a complete waste of time (except for BillF). I predict 99.9% of the population would very quickly come to HATE the drinks!

Antarctica: a quite well-known diet there consists of mashed potato and butter (or lard). That’s it for the day! I think the typical dehi spud has salt in it, as does the butter. From this you get carbo and fats. Strangely enough, Antarctic explorers who have used this diet seemed happy with it. (Yeah, I would like a little more variety, but …)

My wife and I have done a fair few hard trips up to 2 months long. We take our typical walking diet: muesli for breakfast, biscuits, butter, jam etc for lunch, soup and then pasta/rice stew for dinner. No, we have never got tired of it – partly because I can keep ringing the changes on the dinners. Oh yes – and I have this little bag of herbs, spices, curries etc!)

We would normally take about 680 g per day for my wife and 750 g per day for me – I’m 64 kg and slightly larger than my wife. These quantities will do fine per day for up to about two weeks. After that, when we were pushing it hard (like 35 km/day cross country) our food consumption per day started to rise. At the end of 4 weeks we were eating 150% of normal, but we WERE really pushing it. Otherwise we see a small increase per day – maybe 25% but no more, after a few weeks.

How far can you go unsupported? Read
Nanda Devi by Shipman & Tilman
The Worst Journey in the World by Cherry-Garrard
Shackleton’s Forgotten Men by Lennard Bickel
The Long walk by Slavomir Rawicz
etc

Cheers
Roger Caffin

On a 12 day un-resupplied 208 mile JMT hike I consumed 2 quarts of safflower oil from a platypus bladder. This is 16,128 Calories or 1344 Calories/day from pure oil (100% fat). I supplemented this with 4 Clif bars, 5 quarts Gatorade, beef jerky, hot chocolate and instant noodle soup for a total of 3854 calories/day. This worked well for me.

This summer (or maybe fall considering the heavy Sierran snowpack) I will be attempting to set a new un-resupplied, un-supported speed record on the JMT. To do so will require a 5-1/4 day trip length or 40 miles/day.

I considered upping my fat percentage in my diet to keep pack weight down. I figure with 4000 Calories of oil/day, no other food and Nuun electrolyte tablets, I could start the 5-1/4 day trip with a Fully Loaded 11.5 lb. pack.

However, on a 5-1/4 day pace I’ll be running longer and harder than my 12 day pace. Based on previous posts I’ll be better off with the predominantly carbohydrate Accelerade (maybe I’ll toss in the occasional jerky treat).

8.6lbs. Accelerade yields 47.25 quarts mixed beverage. At 2.3, 350 Calorie quarts/10 miles (or 4.4 miles/quart), I’ll consume 9 quarts (3150 calories)/day at a 5-1/4 day pace. If I’m able to hold a 4 day pace (52 miles/day), my allowance goes up to 11.8 quarts Accelerade (4134 Calories)/day. Adding an ounce of jerky/10 miles bumps my complete starting pack weight up to 16 lbs. Going from fat to predominantly carbs increases my starting pack weight by more than 4-1/2 lbs.

I expect to make up my caloric deficeit by consuming body fat and muscle. In an event this short I think that’s feasable without serious performance losses.

On a longer event like Dr.J’s this stategy may not be practical. Monotony, lack of solid food and muscle wasting will likely need to be addressed. At the lower exercise rates of a longer trip I would go back to a high fat diet for weight savings. BTW butter has only 79% of the caloric density of pure fat (such as vegetable oil). Oil keeps better and weighs less/Calorie. Also, I discovered on a Trans-Sierran ski trip that while vegetable oil stays liquid at freezing temperatures, light olive oil congeals-which can prompt some interesting locations on the body to place one’s oil flask to stimulate the melting process.

Frank brings up some interesting points regarding our ancestral dietary habits which I tend to agree with. I think in the long run our “feast or famine” developed genes will override all the nutritional math we choose to conjure. I think something in the 1000 mile range is feasible before the body loses the ability to locomote, or expires. Amazing feats of human powered transit are accomplished every day all over the world by nomadic peoples and refugees.

I do question the idea of “bulking up” on body fat before a trip. If we only get to use 3500 Calories of each lb. of body fat, versus 4000 Calories per ingested lb. wouldn’t it be preferable to put it in our packs? Also, it’s impossible to cache body weight for round trips, side excursions or loop trails. Even hunting for wood, water, game or campsites requires you to drag this ballast around rather than cacheing it.

“The New Laurel’s Kitchen” has a very informative section on nutrition. In the “Protein” section it states that adults with adequate caloric intake need very little protein-just for maintenance. However, with diets low in calories relative to caloric output the body scavenges all food sources and starts burning protein for energy rather than using it to replace tissue. This means that in this situation the percentage of protein in your diet must be substatially increased to discourage muscle wasting and other tissue degredation. This leans me toward a high fat, moderate protein diet-maybe 70%calories from fat/30%from protein?

Richard,
When you give % of nutrients for various exercise profiles, are these by calorie, as I have given, or by weight?

Al,

Calories as you have given.

To optimally dial in your on-the-trail-diet prior to the attempt you can go to a physiology lab and have your RER curve (ratios of fat/CHO burned at different %s of VO2max) measured for about $200.

Alternatively your past experience should serve as a reasonable guide.

Richard

[my apologies, just can’t recall the journal article details with enough certainty to leave this post intact.]

Richard,
Thanks for the RER measurement tip. I wasn’t aware of that option.
Al

Al,

You are quite welcome. If you have that test done also talk to them about the RER drift with time.

For example assume you test that you are burning an equal amount of fat / CHO at 65% of VO2max. Normally the fat % will increase in hours 2 and 3 and then stabilize. Ask them to provide you their forecasted drift numbers also.

Ryan. Do not underestimate the importance of protein in your diet. You need to base your diet around your protein needs and then everything else is less important from there. Get 1-1.5g of protein per every pound of bodyweight. Protein is by far the most important nutrient for maintaining lean mass and health in general.

At the end of the day its a simple equation. Calories in must equal calories out otherwise your going to drop weight and energy and hamper recovery which will increase your chances of being injured. You need to figure out how long you can maintain a hypocaloric diet and still function at a high level of activity. Start eating about 12x your bodyweight in calories a day and see how it makes you feel. After 3-4 days of this go out for a jog. You might discover you’re going to have to budget more weight for food.

Jay,
I believe you meat to say “Get 1-1.5g of protein per every kg…” and not “Get 1-1.5g of protein per every pound…”. Note that 1 kg = 2.2 lbs. Lance Armstrong and his team mates consumed approximately 1.5 g / kg of protein during last years Tour De France.

Early in the history of Backpackinglight.com, an long article by Dr. Brenda L. Braaten available. The article was called “Pack Light, Eat Right”. Dr. Braaten is a Registered Dietician and holds a Ph.D. in Biochemical Nutrition from Tufts University.

1. In her article she correctly stated that “The Energy Machine is fueled by carbohydrate and fat.”
2. Endurance is most critically determined by maintaining carbohydrate/glycogen stores in muscles.
3. Fat and carbohydrate, not protein, are the preferred fuels for muscle.
4. GLYCOGEN is the first fuel to become depleted.
To avoid glycogen depletion, snack frequently (20-30 grams/hour) throughout the hike, and eat a high carbohydrate meal within an hour after quitting for the day.
DON’T eat a high sugar snack just before exercise, unless it is combined with other low sugar foods.

All macronutrients (protein, carbs, fat) can be used as substrates for fuel and gluconeogenesis. Carbs and fat can’t be used for substrates for new protein synthesis. Consequently I like higher protein intakes for all athletes. I did mean per lb. Lance wasn’t in the same boat as Ryan. I’m working on the assumption that Ryan will be net hypocaloric if his energy expenditure is what people are estimating vs. his planned caloric intake (though I think there might be some overestimating going on). Endurance athletes are notoriously under-eaters of protein. If you under shoot the protein it could be detrimental. If you overshoot it can still be used as energy by converting it to pyruvate then acetyl CoA. Can’t say the reverse about carbs and fats (get get amino acids out of them). Additionaly protein is essential in stimulating protein synthesis while insulin is only permissive/modulatory. They key is thinking what happens when you are isocaloric or hypercaloric vs. what happens when you are hypocaloric. If Ryan is determined to pack an amount of food that leaves him hypocaloric he can’t follow the advice of traditional diet plans based on athletes eating a hyper or isocaloric diet.

The whole GI thing, sugar is evil thing, is an outdated concept. Its tough for nutrition oriented people to look beyond the single meal and think about the diet as a sum total of eating events. 10g of sugar holds the same amount of energy as 10g of brown rice carbohydrate. People don’t get fat because of the food they chose but because of how much of the food they chose.

I would be far less concerned with meal to meal decisions. I would spend my time concentrating on getting a diet that has ample protein and calories in general and not limit myself to the simple/complex carb dogma as its tired and dated :)

If anyone is just convinced I’m FOS pick a topic and I’ll provide you w/references.

As far as protein goes, I’d shoot for 15% in my diet and try to get a complete protein in the food choices.

I’d like to see references stating that the simple/complex carb dogma is not valid for competitive athletes.

Jay,

If the diet is calorie sufficient, low exercise activity has little impact on protein requirement; a 1.0 gram/protein per kg/day is sufficient. However, most endurance athletes require more dietary protein intake for 3 reasons:

1. Insufficient carbohydrate calories to meet energy expense
2. Insufficient protein calories to meet energy expense
3. Exercise training expenditure increases 10-fold above resting state

Studies confirm that both endurance and strength training increase skeletal muscle protein synthesis (breakdown). Researchers using nitrogen balance measuring technique confirm protein requirements for endurance exercise is increased to between 1.2-1.4 g/kg bodyweight per day.

Source: http://www.e-caps.com/downloads/JOE/Oct05.pdf

Mr. Shannon. I think if I were a fan of % 15 would be a great number. The reason I’m not a fan of % is because as calories go from hypo to hyper there are certain macro nutrients that become more important. For instance if you are extremely hypocaloric research is clear that with adequate protein you can survive much longer than w/o. If you’re interested search for protein sparing modified fastes.

Here’s a paper (abstract) talking about GI. I think this is what you’re after. If not let me know (like if you want to see something about high GI carbs pre-workout improving performance, etc.). Also if there’s anything thats confusing let me know, I realize not everyone speaks the same dialect of nerd!

Diaz EO et. al. Glycaemic index effects on fuel partitioning in humans. Obes Rev. (2006) 7:219-26.

The purpose of this review was to examine the role of glycaemic index in fuel partitioning and body composition with emphasis on fat oxidation/storage in humans. This relationship is based on the hypothesis postulating that a higher serum glucose and insulin response induced by high-glycaemic carbohydrates promotes lower fat oxidation and higher fat storage in comparison with low-glycaemic carbohydrates. Thus, high-glycaemic index meals could contribute to the maintenance of excess weight in obese individuals and/or predispose obesity-prone subjects to weight gain. Several studies comparing the effects of meals with contrasting glycaemic carbohydrates for hours, days or weeks have failed to demonstrate any differential effect on fuel partitioning when either substrate oxidation or body composition measurements were performed. Apparently, the glycaemic index-induced serum insulin differences are not sufficient in magnitude and/or duration to modify fuel oxidation.

There’s another aspect to this discussion that hasn’t been mentioned, to my knowledge, and that seems to have a huge potential impact over time: glycogen repletion. From what I have been able to glean from the web and an exercise physiology textbook, glycogen repletion proceeds at a pace of about 5-7%/hr, which means that somewhere between 14-20 hours are required to replenish one’s stores IF glycogen stores are completely exhausted. This much time is not practical on a hike such as Ryan’s, I think. This could result in a steadily diminishing store of glycogen at the beginning of each succeeding day and eventually to gluconeogenisis. So it seems to me that the trick is hike at a pace, and for a period of time, each day that only depletes an amount of glycogen that can be repleted in the rest time available(10 hours?), and rely for the rest of one’s calories on endogenous fat and carefully selected carried food. All coments gratefully received, and I am especially interested in hearing from those of you who, from past input, are obviously very knowledgable about exercise physiology. Many thanks in advance.

Tom,

I’m glad I found this thread. I mostly work with bodybuilders and haven’t worked on endurance stuff in a long time (about 6 years). Things have changed a lot. I’m reading up on something called planned fat adaptation. Basically when you stop eating carbs there is a period of time where you feel like ass until your body switches to a more glucagon driven metabolism: basically a state of ketosis like those in atkins, south beach etc. They are safe given adequate calories and not too much time. Basically this theory says you can have athletes purposely deplete their glycogen in advance of their extended event so their body switches to using exclusively fat for fuel in advance. Might be a neat trick to use. I’ve just started collecting data and anecdotal reports from people on it but I’d love to hear if anyone here has any experience ideas. I think glycogen repletion is not a possibility for ryan because it sounds like from people’s estimates before that he is going to be hypocaloric. I think we need to find a way to maximize performance under hypocaloric conditions. Ironically, bodybuilders do this all the time when they drop their body fat to insane levels to prepare for contests.

Hi Jay,
I wish I knew more about exercise physiology, but here goes with some feedback based on personal experience and what little I have picked up. In Ryan’s case, he is going to be out for ~20 days which is a long time to burn fat only, since his performance level will drop due to fat not oxidizing as efficiently as glycogen. I would think he would then be faced with an even longer trip. I know that happened with me on a 17 day trip when I ran out of food and was basically living on trout the last 3 days. I was in ketosis big time(metallic taste in my mouth, lassitude, fuzzy thinking,etc). Also, the brain can’t run on fat, if I understand things correctly, and so at least enough glucose/glycogen has to be replaced after the liver runs out to meet it’s demands. Otherwise, gluconeogenisis sets in. At least some of what I have read claims that gluconeogenisis will also be triggered if the muscles run totally out of glycogen. But I guess that is what you are trying to avoid with the planned fat adaption program if I understand you correctly. I’d be very interested if it turns out to be a workable approach, because it would definitely extend a backpacker’s range. I be very interested to know what you find out. I think Ryan pretty much knows he’s going to go hypocaloric and is betting he can stave off the inevitable long enough to reach the “finish line”. Let’s all hope he doesn’t end up a couple hundred miles short. I, for one, have gotten a lot out of this website and very much want him to continue as the driving force behind it. So just don’t get too hypocaloric on us, Ryan! But look on the good side if you do: At least the bears and boogs will leave you alone.

Brazil nuts & macadamia nuts pack a lot of calories & fat for their relative weight.

Right, the first few days of ketosis can be VERY rought for some people. After about 5 days things start running like normal. You WILL run out of glycogen. Your brain and muscles can use ketone bodies, which it makes from fat, instead of glucose for fuel. It can also make glucose out of amino acids as I’ve mentioned.

I didn’t realize he was planning 20 days. I was thinking like 7. So I’ll have to talk to some friends and ponder on the idea a bit more. My initial idea would be:

1) get adapted to ketosis by eliminating carbs from the diet about 5 days before the hike.
2) do something called a “carb load” the day before the trip. You’ll continue the fat adaptation for at least 7 days if you do this and have max glycogen stores to boot.

At this point I’ll have to do some further thinking. Perhaps continue a diet of mostly fat and protein on the hike (<100g of carbs daily) to maintain fat adaptation and have weekly refeeds/carb loads where ryan has big calorie and carb days to help with performance. This way you only have to carry a couple high calorie days vs. more calories total for every day on a more traditional approach.

I’m not sure if that works physiologically as I’m sort of thinking out loud. Its an interesting thought at least. This would allow you to use body fat stores and dietary fat sources most efficiently and possibly allow you to maintain lean body mass on reduced calories for longer.

Havemann L, West SJ, Goedecke JH, Macdonald IA, St Clair Gibson A, Noakes TD, Lambert EV. Fat adaptation followed by carbohydrate loading compromises high-intensity sprint performance. J Appl Physiol. 2006 Jan;100(1):194-202.

Thats the paper I’m basing the theory off of right now. It basically showed athletes were impaired when trying to do a sprint on these types of diets but showed no detremental effects on a 100km cycle time trial (which would be more like what we would encounter hiking than a sprint). If anyone has any thoughts please let me know.

I don’t think Ryan should eliminate carbs before his hike at all. He should train properly, carbo load before his trip, and snack frequently during his hiking day to conserve his glycogen stores…just as Brenda Braaten states in her write up.

Al (or anyone else),

Regarding your “12 day un-resupplied 208 mile JMT hike” in which you “consumed 2 quarts of safflower oil from a platypus bladder”.

I’m considering a 10 day un-resupplied south to north JMT hike this summer bringing only between 2500 to 3000 calories per day with the following assumptions:

1) Base pack weight including bear canister of approximately 10 pounds.

2) If I’m running short on food I will get snacks en route at the Muir Trail Ranch, VVR, Reds Meadow, Tuolumne, etc.

3) Losing 10 pounds during the trip would not cause me any grief (I’m in good shape but by no means an elite athlete).

4) I don’t want to have to go to bed hungry!

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I have been an elite athlete in my life and know a fair amount about this, including coaching distance athletes. Losing 10 lbs will not only reduce your energy levels during the trip, it can result in serious illnesses during and afterwards. Fasting is extremely dangerous, simply do not do it. When you have too little nutrients your body uses your muscles. Not good.

If you are concerned about saving weight follow the guidelines Braeton discusses regarding calorie dense and BALANCED foods. You can save allot of weight this way. Your body needs everything, fats, carbs, minerals, vitamins, etc. Don’t skimp here. Eat ALL the time, I mean all day. Drink plenty of fluids AT THE SAME TIME YOU EAT to avoid hyponutremia too. (low electroyte condition).

Depending on your age, condition, pack weight and body weight, and total effort each day give yourself enough calories. Your ability to accomplish this will soar!

Most long distance folks, myself included have found the real secret to these events is to learn how to start out at the pace one will finish, to allow the body 3 days to acclimatize both to the effort and altitude, and to be steady with mini breaks for stretching, yoga, and micro naps.

Good luck!
Evan

Evan (or Bernard?),

Thanks for your input. Please note that I don’t intend to “fast” during the hike. I’m just trying to find an optimal amount of food to bring. I should have added the following to my initial post.

Last summer my wife and I did the Rae Lakes Loop. We planned and brought food for a 5-day trip but ended up finishing in only 2.5 days including a side trip to Sixty Lakes Basin. Despite our fast pace we still didn’t eat all of the food we budgeted (2600 calories per day per person) for each day nor were we hungry!

I am specifically worried that on day 4 or 5 of my JMT trip my metabolism will kick in and I’ll be hungry. However, by that point I’ll be able to buy extra supplies at the Muir Trail Ranch, Reds, etc. so maybe it makes since to not bring to much food.

John,

Maybe I didn’t do a good job of explaining my rationale. So let me try again.

1) I’m assuming that due to unavoidable circumstances Ryan is going to end up at a net negative energy balance in that he is going to be using more calories than he can eat. This will make maintaining glycogen stores pretty difficult, if not impossible, and throw conventional wisdom about athletes and nutrition out the window as this is all based on the idea that athletes are hypercaloric or at least isocaloric.

2) Eventually he’s going to start catabolizing body energy stores. After glycogen you have two other storage depots: adipose tissue and muscle. The key is something called “partitioning” where in you do all you can to keep the calories coming from adipose tissue instead of muscle.
3) The glucose dependent organs (muscle, brain, etc) can substitute ketone bodies made by the liver from fat for glucose. As anyone that has tried one of the low carb fad diets will tell you the first couple days are very difficult but eventually your body adapts and you feel “normal” I would have Ryan undergo this adaptation phase when there isn’t anything at stake, ie, before the hike.
4) At some point Ryan, or any hiker in his condition, will have to start catabolizing tissue for fuel. If you reduce carbs in advance and pre-condition your body to start running off ketone bodies you can spare yourself the week of adjustment time and be adapted to use dietary and body fat preferntially and avoid catabolizing muscle (assuming adequate intake of protein which I feel safe setting at 1g/lb).

5) Ideally I would want ryan or anyone to simply eat enough calories and follow a traditional dieting approach. I don’t think thats an option. Research I found on people doing antartic crossing pulling sleds for 90 days showed them to be fairly malnourished eating 4000 calories a day. The key goals need to be maintaining high levels of protein synthesis. Insuring efficient usage of body and dietary energy sources. Those boht meet the ultimate goal of not starving or at least starving with grace.

Its just something I proposed that I thought might work in this sittuation. Maybe others will try it on shorter duration trips in less remote places. Or maybe it will be written off as hersey :)