the tent problem

I have the 1 person Rainbow and like it a lot. For just me, I feel like there enough space between my bag and the edges of the tent that rain spray wouldn’t be a problem.

If you are really concerned about your bag getting wet, get the lightest tent and then get an Equinox Bivy for $60 that weighs 6.5oz.

It’s a little added weight for peace of mind.

http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=105&osCsid=fe9677a2a717239dec3563c3a3df45ce

And this:
http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=30&osCsid=fe9677a2a717239dec3563c3a3df45ce

I used this on my last trip, and stayed completely dry, in a major downpour, under a solo Spinnaker Tarp:

http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=61

I've got this on order:

http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=120&osCsid=fe9677a2a717239dec3563c3a3df45ce

I would say a single hoop tent with a fly design of some sort would be the lightest with some decent headroom.

Freestanding means 2-3 long poles and thats heavier. I had a Sierra velox 3 and that was very nice although not super UL. I think the 3 was just over 5# which is not bad for a 3 man tent, but it has a net body. Has an X arch frame. Lonnnnng poles and 2 doors. Very Roomy. They are not made anymore.

This was recently pointed out to me. A reworked Coleman tent design by Tim Marshall I think.

Its very light at 2#3oz for a 2 man tent. If you needed a cloth interior wall instead of net, and you used one of the expensive Momentum 0.9 oz Ultralite Ripstop fabrics the weight should be close to the same.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=11839&skip_to_post=176960#176960

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That is a very valid point.

I have a Squall 2 which has done better than anticipated in rainy, very humid conditions here in Ontario. Tarptent design is rock solid.

I find that you begin to question a lot of things as to what's neccesary after being around a lot of SUL fanatics.

This will be my fall set up…

Montbell Breeze
MLD mini tarp (homemade cuben equivalent)
and Simblissity Inner Peace (or equivalent)

This affords me waterproof, rain protection with bug protection all in a modular setup, if it's not raining I don't need the tarp, if it's not buggy I don't need the bug netting. All told will weigh in somewhere around 14-15 oz with stakes and line. When the bugs are all gone I can leave the bug netting at home and save 4.4 oz… If I know it's going to 90% be dry then I can leave the tarp home, and even if it does rain I still have a waterproof bivy.

TarpTent…

Do you need a double ?
Not to be personal, but what is your size, and that of you partner if there is one. ?
Franco

I used a double 6 weeks ago and had to set it up every night in the rain for 6 days straight. I hated it and wished I had a single wall to keep the interior dry.

Having said that, a double wall that has an inner attached to the outer fly would have worked as well….but at a considerable weight increase.

Do you need a double ? – I dont really need a double. The problem is I might in the future and the double rainbow is only 7 ounces heavier than the rainbow and I have gossamer trekking poles so I can probably leave the stakes at home and make it freestanding.

Not to be personal, but what is your size, and that of you partner if there is one. ?

I am 6'0 200 lbs and my friend is 5'11" 180 lbs. Both of us are athletically built.

I see that the rainbow is 1+ people but im betting that means smaller people. It sounds like me and my friend would be a little too close for comfort in the rainbow. I just dont know.

Is the rainbow the lightest free standing tent? And will it keep bugs and rain off me?

The 1+ for the Rainbow would be a parent and child, adult and dog, or two people spooning.

Bugs will be no problem. The mesh door and the mesh skirt will keep those out.

Rain shouldn’t be a problem either, you just will have to pitch it a bit more creatively.

There’s a lot of good info in these reviews of the Rainbow and these of the Double

John
The Rainbow is indeed a 1+ tent, Terra Nova would call it a two person tent as do MSR with their CR2.( 40" wide in the middle, the Rainbow can be wider than that if you let the floor down, 38" otherwise)
BUT for the extra few ounces, the two doors/vestibules would make the DR a lot more livable (IMHO)
Franco
Leave the stakes at home.
No I would not do that with any tent. I have done that to test my skills ( well picked up the wrong stuff sac, them Tarptents all look the same) and had some fun looking for suitable stones and branches to use as "pegs" but took a bit longer than usual to set up. On another occasion my Lighthouse demonstrated how it can turn itself into a kite. ( I was thinking about where to move it to when a gust of wind , not expected.., moved it for me. fortunatelly I was close to thick bush)

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Personally I couldn't force myself to pull the trigger on a Double Rainbow when you can either (1)Get the Squall 2 with the same amount of square footage (A little more) for 6oz less… Or (2)Get the Rainshadow 2 for the same weight as the DR and have a ton more space. DR has some cool features for sure, but the weight to space ratio that the other designs follow doesn't seem to be there. But somehow, I can't help help but think some type of update to to these designs is either in the works or some type of new product that will make them obsolete is on the way. Moment 2 or something perhaps.

"Rain shouldn't be a problem either, you just will have to pitch it a bit more creatively."

What do you mean? Like I wont be able to stay dry unless I put the tent on high ground under some thick trees?

Check out the BA Copper Spur UL1, seems like a great tent for the weight?

The only solo tent I now have is the MSR Hubba, which although narrow, is a nice tent.
You would probably stay drier over longer periods of intense rain, than some single walls. Especially when you factor in condensation.

They feature tougher and better waterproofed floors and rain fly's too.
This is why more people on average tend to purchase these types of tents.

Has anyone told you or mentioned the mist-through factor with Silnylon? Normally, not even enough water comes through for you to become extremely wet, but I thought you should realize this fact.

What is mist through? Do you mean if I buy a tarptent it will be very humid or wet?

No you won't get wet in a Tarptent, but very heavy rains, can cause a "slight" amount water to be pushed through silnylon. Not sure what its pressure rating is compared to PU coated fabrics, but its much less.

Basically, it sounds like you want something you can just crawl into, and not be too concerned about site selection, and shelter pitch, and stay dry no matter what, then you're probably better off going with a regular dual wall tent, like a BA Cooper Spur SL1, or an MSR Hubba.

Just my 2 cents worth.

John, I think you'll find that many of the members on this site have more than one shelter and more than one type, i.e., bivy, tarps, tarp tents, single-wall & double-wall tents. The reason for that is one type of shelter isn't sutible for all situations or environments. One time you might want to go UL (bivy or tarp), another time you might to go four-season (double-wall).

You mention that you will be hiking in Glacier Park. Are you aware that that the western side of the park is classified as a rainforest? I've been there when it rained for days and days on end non-stop. In those conditions I'd want only a double wall tent. So check the weather before you go, for sure.

You asked about "misting" through silnylon. Well, since it's a light fabric, given enough hydrostatic pressure, water will force its way through (it would have to be a very heavy rain), since the sil doesn't have a solid coating such as urethane. And some of the misting may be the result of rain drops shaking loose interior condensation, a problem with single-walls. Happy trails!

For ventilation purposes there is a desiged-in gap between the ground/tent floor and where the silnylon stops. The gap is filled by the noseeum netting for bug protection. This is what makes it a tarpTENT and not just a tarp.

Now, there could, in a really hard or sideways rain, be a bit of splash through this noseeum.

When I say 'pitch creatively', I mean following Franco's (resident tarptent expert) suggestion of digging holes where the support pole meets the ground lower the wall and lessen the gap. (You kind of have to be able to visualize/own a Rainbow to understand how this would work, but it's pretty simple)

Decreasing this gap would prevent splash-thru but also decrease ventilation and increase potential condensation inside your tent(Imagine the inside of a car in winter/humid conditions. The reason you need a defogger in cars.)

However, unless the humidity/rain is just crazy, you won't get dripped on, unlesss your talking a pretty extended thunderstorm where the wind/rain would hit the tent walls hard enough to knock the condensation off. There will be condensation on the inside of the tent wall, which will only be a problem if you are brushing against it. Which in tents with the headroom of the Rainbow series shouldn't be a big problem.

Double wall tents with netting inners have the same issues with condensation. It's just that the netting inner creates separation between the condensation holding rain-fly and yourself, so you brush against the dry netting, not the damp rain fly. The separation can also aid ventilation, lessening condensation. The only way to truly mitigate condensation is to use a double inner wall tent, which is reserved for winter and car campers generally.

If you haven't used tarps or Tarptents before, this all sounds kind of scary/complicated, but it's not really at all. It might be a bit of a leap of faith, but it's one that pays off in the opinions of most here(if I may be so presumptuous)

Well … I bought a double rainbow. My friend told me he was going to buy the CR2 from REI so he could return it if needed and we can compare.

Hopefully my experience comparing the two will be helpful to other newbies like myself. I was going to buy the rainbow to save on weight but it isnt available right now. My GG poles are only 140cm so Im worried I wont be able to make it freestanding but I will let you all know how it works out.

I took the $20 option to get it seam sealed.

The reason I chose the double rainbow over the rainshadow 2 is because the double rainbow can be freestanding and I always seem to end up in camp sites located on rock beds for some reason.

Did I need to tell Henry that I wanted a floor in my TT or do they come standard?

Floor is standard.

I think you'll like the DR a lot. I didn't realize they even sold an optional inner liner, because they don't for the single Rainbow. That would solve all your moisture concerns.

140cm is the minimum length suggested for the DR free-standing. But they sell aluminum extenders for $1.50 in their web shop, or they suggest making some from pvc tubing if you desire a tauter pitch.

Why do people keep talking about requesting sewn in floors then? And I was reading reviews about the double rainbow where someone got the liner and he said all it did was cause the water to drip on the side of his sleeping bag instead of in the middle. So I figured it wasnt really going to be stopping much if I get caught in a big storm.