4 person family Tent

[Scott Van Doeselaar]

>1) How did you attach the zipper to the cuben?

Zipper is attached with the same bond material. It is a Uretek water resistant zipper from Thru-hiker. I bond one side of the zipper to the cuben and then I sandwich the zipper with another 1 inch strip of cuben. This doubles the surface area for bonding and helps prevent peel.

>3) what is the red stuff where the netting is bonded to the walls?

For this joint I was worried about peel so I decided to go with sewing. Cuben has no inherent resistance to tearing once you poke holes in it. To mitigate this I bonded a 1/4 strip of grosgrain to the outside of the tent wall and stitched the floor thru this. Red is my kid's favorite color

>4) How much glue needed for your project?
I used about 8 or 9 3/4 oz tubes of aquaseal by McNett

[Scott Van Doeselaar]

Brett,

It looks like a solid design. Attaching the floor to the end of the walls will simplify things quite alot. I also like your idea of the tie out on the vent hoods. This may add some stability in winds. I wish I had thought of that. The way I put mine together is not strong enough to carry tieout loads.

>I wonder if such zippers are sufficiently waterproof if the seam sewing it is sealed.

I sure hope so, because I committed to this. Although if it does leak too much I can add a flap over the zipper fairly easily. All of my camping tends to summer in the Sierra and I have not had to deal with serious long term rain.

>I'm planing on following your directions for attaching the noseem mesh. I would really appreciate any feedback on this

I attach the mesh by using a half inch overlap of mesh onto the cuben. I then take a 1 inch strip of cuben shaped to follow the opening. Typically I will lay the main cuben part flat on the floor taped to prevent it from moving. I then lay the mesh in place with 1/2" overlap. I then tape this to floor as well to hold everything in position. I then fold back the mesh and lay about 1/4" wide very thin bead of bond on the cuben. Then I fold the mesh back into place and lightly tack it down. I then lay another similar bead of bond just outside the mesh on the cuben, then the 1 inch strip lays over this. If you do it just right there is sufficient bond to flow through the mesh and wet the 1 inch strip. Sometimes I have to add bond on top of the mesh. If you have not put too much on the bond is all contained and you don't get stuck to the floor. I always check for this while it is curing because I always end up with some squeeze out. PM me if you want more info.

[Brett Rasmussen]

Scott,
Thank you for the directions and for sharing your project with us. I'm still waiting for the cuben to arrive. I'll be sure to post pictures of it's progress. With your instructions on how to make a 2 pound family tent the birth rate in the lightweight backpacking community may go up.

Brett

[davd smith]

It sounds like everyone is hiking/camping in warm weather areas. I was tinkering with the idea of making a cuben tent similar in shape to the snowtrekker tents but wondered about the flammability of cuben.

For those of you that have experience with building tents of cuben, would you consider a stove jack?

[. .]

Most any fabric that encounters flame will loose to the match.

Nonetheless, why not give it a go! Talk to the folk at Titanium Goat for some experienced beta.

[Scott Van Doeselaar]

It is basically plastic, a petroleum product, so I think it would burn nicely.

I just tested a small sample. It tended to melt rapidly with a match flame but did not really hold the flame well. I think that this is relatively good news. At least it doesn't go up in flames rapidly like some plastic but you would definitely want to keep it below melting point.

[Steven Evans]

Hey Davd,
I don't want to take this thread too far off topic, but I'll reply to your question.

I see no reason why you could not put a stove jack in a cuben shelter. Of course the stove jack itself could not be cuben. I think my Ti Goat stove jack is made of some sort of kevlar? I have successfully used my Ti Goat stove in my Cuben Duomid by just leaving the pipe out the door and stabilizing it with trekking poles and wire. I'm going to add the stove jack for this winter when I get some time. As long as the pipe is far enough away from the fabric, you are fine.

If you search for Duomid Pics, you'll see I've posted several with the ti goat stove in it.

[Tom Peterson]

What a great job! I really like the way you thought out the tie outs and the idea of laminating the mesh between two pieces of cuben. Again, great job!

[Scott Van Doeselaar]

Took the kids on a cub scout camp and got to use my tent. Many thanks to Kevin Egelhoff who came up with an adjustable carbon pole that weighed in at 3.67 oz. I added a tip on the top and bonded a close out on the bottom to prevent wear and give me something to grip and twist. I also have a separate base that protects the tent floor. Total weight of the pole with mods was 4.3 oz. This pole is roughly 6' long. It appears that it is completely up to the task as long as it does not take a big side load from a kick. Here is a pic of the pole and the tent set up in action.

[Cesar Garcia]

Nice job, looks great. Did you have any a lot of condensation?

[Brett Rasmussen]

Thanks for showing us the tent in action. I have only had time for one quick overnighter with my family cuben mid, not much worth reporting yet.
That’s a freakishly light pole. I have yet to try using trekking poles for a center support, but would certainly like to get away from the 15 oz golite pole if possible. The base at the end of the pole makes good sense.

Brett

[Jay Wilkerson]

What is the diameter of the round piece of plywood? Should it be larger if it was on top of snow to prevent sinking? I have a Golite Hex…

Just curious…

[Scott Van Doeselaar]

>That’s a freakishly light pole.

I wholeheartedly agree. I was really worried until I got it. It is stiffer than my aluminum pole and as long as it does not get an accidental human driven side load it seems to perfectly adequate. This has kept my total weight down below 2 lbs.

[Scott Van Doeselaar]

>What is the diameter of the round piece of plywood?

The diameter is 3 inches. If the snow is packed firm it might be ok. I would probably go up to four inches with a winter set up without going thicker. Much bigger and it might not be stiff enough unless the thickness was increased. This was made from ~3/32" modeling plywood from Michaels.

[Jay Wilkerson]

Thanks for the info Scott!!!

[Henk Smees]

First of…. Even though this thread is several months old, I hope people are still watching it.

Hi Scott,

I followed your progress because I’ve been working on the design of a packcover/cape (something similar to Roger Caffin’s Silnylon Mountain Poncho) that’ll have double use as an “awning” for my present tarp – a Golite Lair 1 (next projects will be a Cuben tarp and a Cuben-Quantum bivy).

I’m worried about a few things and I assume you’ve been able to use your tent over the past few months, so I’d like to ask some questions:

1). Is the Aquaseal standing up to its task (at holding the bond)?
2). I had planned to sew all the seams and, afterwards, sandwich these between two strips of Cuben glued with Aquaseal for (a) seal the sewn seams and (b) improve strength. Would this be overkill (I mean the sewing)?
3). You’ve used Cuben for the floor as well. Is it strong (abrasion resistant) enough? I’m worried about this because you never know which kind of surface you’ll encounter when reaching the “campside”. As said before, one of my next projects will be a bivy and I plan on using Cuben for the bottom (with Pertex Quantum upper). Having said so, I’d use my RidgeRest on the ground and the Cuben of the bivy would go next.

Hope this isn’t too much off topic. Thanks in advance.

BTW. You’ve given me quite a few, very usable ideas I’d like to “borrow” (two layers bonded together before hand and folded makes four layers of Cuben for stake outs, nylon tube distributing load, mesh sandwiched between two layers of Cuben -I suppose it’ll work with Quantum as well-, Styrofoam top in tent, etc.). Many thanks.

[Henry Blake]

Henk,

Be sure to start your own thread to keep us up on your new projects as they are developed. Good Luck!

[Henk Smees]

Hi Henry,

I promise I will keep the community informed. I’ve got several ideas that need to be “polished” but, with work & family keeping me away from the “design-desk”, it isn’t easy. The cape/packcover/awning, the bivy and the mini-tarp are just three of the projects spinning in my head.

A few years ago, I made myself a backpack which was (and still is) very comfortable and 100% waterproof, but worked out way too heavy (over 2 lbs.) — because I used materials I had readily available at home. Now, with the experience gained with that prototype, and based upon the same design, I’m figuring out how and what to use for a new one where all the effort is focused on reducing weight, whilst keeping the same advantages (comfortable and waterproof). But I'm going off-topic. Sorry.

[drowning in spam]

I love this tent. Great job on it.

[Scott Van Doeselaar]

Henry,

Haven't been watching the forum very much lately. I just noticed your post.

The aquaseal is holding up extremely well. I am pretty convinced that this bond is better than sewing for cuben.

As far as the floor is concerned I use a lager of polycryo from GG under the cuben and I have not had any punctures yet. I am pretty careful but the family tent sees the 8 and 10 yr old as well and has had no holes. I think it is adequate with a ground cloth. If you set it on the ground directly I think you will start seeing some holes, but they are very easy to repair. Short term throw on some duct tape and when you get back bond on a cuben patch with the aquaseal.

[Henk Smees]

Hi Scott,
I am just about to throw in an order for some Cuben for one of my projects (raincover/cape); as a matter of fact, I sent an E-mail yesterday to the only supplier I know here in Europe with some questions. Related to this subject, I asked for his opinion about either gluing, stitching or gluing and stitching (as glue I told him I was going to use either Hysol or Aquaseal). In his answer, this morning, he recommended using the 3M 9485PC transfer-tape instead of gluing with Hysol because “the tape would be quite a bit more flexible -compared to Hysol- and would give a very strong bond”. Some of his clients “who glued with Hysol, had the seams of the Cuben delaminated”, so he could not recommend this. He didn’t say anything about Aquaseal, so he might not have any experience with same.
As I already was pretty convinced about gluing (I just didn’t know whether to stitch and glue or just glue), your answer has made it clear to me. I’ll just glue, in the same way you did (or at least try to – your expertise looks very good to me and I doubt my end-result will look as professional as yours, but… so be it, I’ll have to live with that). My only problem -at the moment- is finding a supplier here in Europe for the Aquaseal – anyone with any suggestions?
Henk
P.D. (for Henry B.). My first design regarding the cape/packcover/awning didn’t really work out well and since the CF is so light I’ve decided to make two pieces of equipment – (1) a cape/packcover, similar to Roger Caffin’s Mountain Poncho, but it will be part of my home-made pack -although it can be used on its own as a cape- and (2) a tarp with integrated awning. I’ll keep the community informed, as promised.

[Scott Van Doeselaar]

Henk,

The supplier of Aquaseal is McNett. It is also sold for wet suit repair, so you might try dive shops.

Aquaseal has a few advantages over the Hysol. The working time is measured in hours and no clamping is required. Use very thin layers and then press the joint tight. You can use a roller as well. There is enough initial tack that the joint will stay together without clamping. I would also clean the joint area with alcohol before bonding.

[Roger Caffin]

> a cape/packcover, similar to Roger Caffin’s Mountain Poncho, but it will be
> part of my home-made pack -although it can be used on its own as a cape-

Integrated with the pack? Sounds interesting. Yeah, photos would be nice when.

Cheers

[Henk Smees]

Scott:

>>The supplier of Aquaseal is McNett. It is also sold for wet suit repair, so you might try dive shops.

I know, but when I’m going to the finding a dealer section (on their web-site), I’m diverted to McNett Europe which is when the trouble starts: they don’t seem to hold/sell Aquaseal (in the Europe-branch). I have already sent an E-mail to McNett USA and asked them for help.

>>I would also clean the joint area with alcohol before bonding.

I take it for granted the product you've used will be the “Aquaseal Urethane Repair Adhesive & Sealant”. I’ve been reading the Gear Repair & Care Guide, especially the chapters where they mention Aquaseal and in the “Drysuit repair”-section, they advise to clean with alcohol as well. Many thanks again.

Whilst writing this post, I received an E-mail from McNett USA. They told me to contact Roy Whitehead, Managing Director at McNett Europe and gave me his E-mail address. I’ve already sent him an E-mail with the same question and I’ll wait for his answer.

Roger: My homemade backpack (see pictures below) is an external pack (something like LuxuryLite packs, but more simple) with waterproof 20L. Dry-Bags (as used in watersports). The hipbelt is from a climbing harness, so the belt has double use and the stays are the last (bottom) section of my trekking-poles so, if need be, they can serve as replacement when the poles bend or break. They also serve as my rear tent-poles (front-poles will be an A-frame using my trekking-poles) when I finish the design of my new CF-tarp (tent), so the stays really have triple use. As explained in my previous post in March, the first version of this pack was (and is) way too heavy, because I used materials I had readily available at home. Since I’m working on a much lighter version where I’ll be using very light 20L. bags (just over 2 oz. each), these new ones will not be fully waterproof and that’s why I’ll need the cover. After reading about your Mountain Poncho I thought your design was great, but I wanted it attached to my pack. With just a few alterations, the M. Poncho can be fixed “permanently” to almost any pack. I’ll be attaching the bottom part with an elastic cord to my belt and the top part with two trident buckles to the top of the stays. Other packs (standard) would only need a female part of the buckle sewn to each of the shoulder straps and two male parts with some webbing (to be able to adjust when the pack is more or less full) on the inner part of the poncho (and a D-ring -or similar- at each side of the hip-belt to attach the elastic cord). By releasing the buckles and the elastic cord you can take of your pack, keeping the poncho on (just like in your original design). If you only need the cover, you can roll up the rest of the poncho and keep it tied up at the shoulder straps and the elastic cord. I know I’m explaining this very badly, but I hope to have my new pack, including cape/cover, ready within a few months (I’ll post some pictures/instructions then).

[Doug Johnson]

Beautiful work! I'm super jealous!!!

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