Shelter for exposed conditions

It sounds like you are leaning toward a bivy or buvy type shelter. You could also add the Big Agnes 3-wire bivy to the mix. Lots of room and fully bug proof – event fabric and just under 2lbs. Extremely wind proof with the lowere profile.

Yes, I think I am leaning towards a Bivy type shelter with a couple of support poles to keep the material off my face… They seem to offer good protection from the weather, insects while remaining compact and simple to pitch.

Thomas,
Based on the type of conditions you are expecting, I'd go back and take a real close look at the Integral Designs shelters. Not ultralight, to be sure, but ultralight may not be the best choice for your expected extreme conditions. The ID Event Unishelter would be a great choice for those conditions, as would the MK1 XL tent. Both are bomb proof and very well constructed, with a small footprint.

Thomas – I have both the event Unishelter and the Event Three Wire (Big Agnes) and posted some pics here:http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=15051

I much prefer the BA – much better stability and ventilation.

Those are some pretty wide range of conditions. Do you plan to experience them in the same trip? If not, would two shelters work?

Also, Integral Designs tents rock – proud owner of an MK1 XL here. Also, if you're looking for a solo shelter, take a look at the Hilleberg Soulo. There is one for sale on the Gear Swap right now.

"Those are some pretty wide range of conditions. Do you plan to experience them in the same trip? If not, would two shelters work?"

With luck I would have fine weather most of the time.But it is always possible to get caught out by bad weather espicailly when the trip is more then 4-5 days long. Quite a few walks start of in the forests and would eventually climb to more exposed conditions with only scrubs and rock for shelter.

When conditions are fine I can go with minimal shelter, and during the winter when snow is likely I do have a proper 4 season tent but it weighs half a ton so I normally only take it when snow is guaranteed.

On solo trips which I plan I probably can avoid bad weather 99% of the time, but many hiking companions ignore forecasts and we head out with maringal weather which is the main time I need such a shelter.

That's kinda what I thought.

I'd recommend two shelters then – one, a tarp and bivy setup for below treeline conditions. You might have to hike high and camp low. Second, a bombproof shelter for winter conditions or planned trips above treeline. A small tarp with a catenary cut (5×9) can serve this purpose. Add a bivy, and you're protected from bugs. You can carry aluminum or carbon fiber tarp poles; Gossamer Gear and Mountain Laurel Designs sell such gear.

Someone on here just had Ron at MLD build him a tarp made out of 1.5 oz/yd^2 Cuben Fiber (most tarps are made of 0.6 oz/yd^2 cuben. You should be able to find the thread with a search.

As said, a MK1 XL from Integral Designs is fantastic in this element.

What I'm trying to get at is to encourage you think about whether you need a bombproof shelter for every trip.

Hi Matt

> a bombproof shelter for winter conditions or planned trips above treeline. A small tarp
> with a catenary cut (5×9) can serve this purpose.

Um – 'bombproof' ???????????????
We must be talking about different planets!

Cheers

Some people like bivys… I generally likely having a bit more room, especially when there is snowfall. I would take a look at the tarptent scarp1. The MLD DuoMid + bug liner might also be big enough… or some other more traditional pyramid shelter. I have also had good like with the BD / ID / Bibler wedge tents.

–mark

Boy, I agree with Roger here. I have been in surprise snow storms in my Squall 2 (a step above a cat tarp I believe, but I have not used a tarp since 1978 so I know I am behind) and dug my sleeping brother-in-law out of his collapsed Contrail on the same trip. (That is sleeping hard…)

If you plan to be above tree-line I would suggest more than a tarp, unless you can place it just right. The problem is the wind shifts from night to morning due to the convective winds in those locations. Plus your statement of “open tops” sounds like rock in the areas I frequent. Free-standing is the way there unless you rig your shelter up with cord to wrap around rocks (should they be available).

I normally take a tricked out Seedhouse SL2 but am taking a TT Rainbow to the Sierra in two weeks.

I do plan to start learning the ropes of modern tarps though and will undoubtedly be pushing my boundaries in the future.

Good luck with your search,

Hi Ray

> The problem is the wind shifts from night to morning due to the convective winds in those locations.

That's not the only cause. One night in the mountains our tent was hit from *all four directions* at 10 minute intervals. The wind was swirling around something fierce. The idea of trying to pitch a tarp to handle those conditions … it would have taken off.

In case anyone is wondering – I am not trying to be difficult here. I am however trying to make sure that some novice who has never slept in a storm above the tree line does not get the wrong idea!

Cheers

>We must be talking about different planets!

Or possibly differing definitions of Matt's phrase "this
purpose".

It's a little early for me to tell.

Tarp? Yikes.

I second the MLD DuoMid. I plan on using a bug cape tied up high inside for bug protection. Ron might be able to make a custom length for you since you may need it. The space is nice to have in the poor weather conditions you described for you and your gear.

The MLD TrailStar shelter looks cool too. Ron says he thinks it will stand up to 60mph winds. Both shelters weigh around 15 oz but require trekking poles and steaks.

From http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com

If you haven't tried poles yet defiantly give them a shot. If you have tried them and just don't like them thats OK too. This guy doesn't use them either.

I would say any shelter that is to be used in exposed conditions should be capable of being pitched down to the ground. Wind will seek out any gaps, and your shelter may turn into a kite.

This guy doesn't use them either.

Yes, but look at the poor guy, the wind blew half his fur away.

>>This guy doesn't use them either.

But he'd probably suggest that you do use them, as he's not an advocate of bipedal locamotion as a means of moving through mountain landscapes. ;)

I know really. I thought he was going to try to get in the DuoMid with me.

You mention you could get claustrophobic… In that case I would not consider a bivy. I thought I would be okay in a Nemo GoGo, but come 3 am the inability to stretch my legs was pretty confining. For the same weight as a stand-alone bivy you could use a TT Rainbow. I'm 6'2" and have plenty of space; the vertical walls make a huge difference, so even if your head and feet just fit, it will feel much roomier than a pyramid-style tent. Plus, the main pole goes from head to foot, so even with strong wind you won't have fabric pushing down on your face.

The Rainbow would be more versatile in lower elevations than a bivy, and it has a very small footprint relative to other tarptents. I don't think you would fit in a DuoMid, at leash not in the inner mesh option, despite it being an excellent choice.

Based on the hiking preferences you list, my rational for high winds is this; the Rainbow is sturdy enough that if you were caught in an unexpected storm, you'd be just fine an therefore can camp higher than with other tarptents. Most storms that would do real damage to a Rainbow would be thing you would typically see coming, and therefore would want to be camping low anyway.

Most storms that would do real damage to a Rainbow would be thing you would typically see coming, and therefore would want to be camping low anyway.

In my experience in the alpine regions of the mountains here in Japan and in Europe, there were quite a few times when one moment it was a beautiful, quiet, sunny day, the next (like twenty minutes later) it was a raging storm where you could barely stand up. Such places are notoriously unpredictable and if you are going to be in exposed areas I would definitely make sure my shelter can handle the situation. People with experience can probably find good protection from the wind and rain (and sometimes snow) even in exposed areas, and so can opt for a tarp, but I wouldn't recommend it to someone who doesn't know what they are doing.

The Rainbow is a good tent and I've used it in alpine conditions, including storms, but it is not built to take really fierce storms. Sure, it might still be standing in the morning, but you will have had a very rough night.

"Sure, it might still be standing in the morning, but you will have had a very rough night."

Well said. We have 'survived' a gale force heavy rain storm in a Double Rainbow, but we didn't get ANY sleep :(

Don't know that I would have slept any better in a solid 4 season tent though?

Short of the the Scarp, a Tarptent for exposed, windy conditions is a horrible choice. Doable, but not nearly ideal.

As far as stretching legs in a bivy, the Unishelter is 98" long. No issue stretching in that one.

> Most storms that would do real damage to a Rainbow would be thing you would typically
> see coming, and therefore would want to be camping low anyway.

Oh, we can see the storms coming, with about 30 minutes notice. But it is a LONG way down to sheltered terrain! Not a realistic option for us. As Lynn said, sometimes you don't get a real lot of sleep, even in a good tent!

Cheers

Your requirements:
1. good for exposed conditions (i.e. no trees to tie into, likely solid rock to set up on)
2. no walking sticks for supports
3. light weight

You need a self supported tent – period.

Get a TarpTent Scarp 1 W/ the net body.
For winter use their optional carbon fiber crossing poles and optional ripstop interior body. That's as "BOMPROOF' as its gonna get.

Eric
UPDATE: Well Roger, you're keerect – I meant "bombproof" in terms of winds up to 50 mph/80 kmh. After that you'd need a true 4 season mountaineering tent with all tyouts used.