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Water Filter Failure

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Dean F. BPL Member
PostedNov 16, 2009 at 9:47 am

>> I think a fair number of us would be offering supporting, if anecdotal, evidence of heavy viral loads in western streams if that were the case.

In my defense, I didn't say that infested streams aren't out there. You only have to take a sample downstream of a cattle ford, after all. And I wouldn't, for example, drink from the South Platte. :o)

I was talking about our classic example- a small mountain stream relatively near its headwaters. I'm pretty sure several surveys found them generally untainted. (Haven't had a chance to search for references- sorry.) I suspect that they weren't terribly well publicised because the NPS and USFS, not unreasonably, doesn't want hordes of tourists running amok in the backcountry drinking unfiltered water.

For the record- I am NOT one of those "there's no reason to treat your water at all" fanatics. I have a Sawyer filter, that I adore. But I'm also not one of those "all backcountry water must be suspected to be deadly poison" people, either. As with most things in life I suspect that the best course lies somewhere in the middle ground.

And as it turns out, I never did get to check in Auerbach last night. I will, though.

PostedNov 16, 2009 at 4:47 pm

Mike,

If you shoud recall where you found your viral size table at some point, I'd appreciate it if you would post the location. I've been searching various web sites and some scholarly papers and everything I've found indicates that the virus sizes in the table you posted are off by a factor of ten. For example the data I've found for the rotavirus was 0.04 to 0.07 microns which would make them too large to go through the Sawyer which they claim is 0.02 microns absolute.

Keith

PostedNov 16, 2009 at 5:39 pm

"It does serve to highlight the scope of the issue: On one end of the scale a single organism could cause illness in a susceptible person and on the other end of the scale there are some who would be able to drink gallons of highly contaminated water with no ill effect whatsoever

Furtermore, we can't simply quantify the risk of acquiring a water borne (or any) illness by solely detrming the Infectious Dose of a pathogen. While this may have some statistical utility, the bigger question is how does this relate to You and your immune system on a given day under given environmental conditions? Is your immunity average? And, what is average immunity? We can't determine the true risk without bringing your individual immune variables into the equation:
How old are you? Any comorbid disease / Diabetes ? HIV? Are you on immune supressing medication? Have you had a recent illness? Are you heat stressed? malnourished? Dehydrated? Exhausted? etc etc and therein lies the "susceptible" It's a fundamental part of the problem.

So we have to look at both the pathogenicity of the organism and the individual risk factors or susceptibilities of the individual to start determining the risk of aquiring the illness. And even these are probably just the tip of the iceberg – there are undoubtedly myriad other variables that play into the equation.

Back to the original point – yes, it is unlikely that a single organism is going to cause illness, but it is more likely in some than in others.

So, next time you take a nice long cool drink from a pristine glacial stream, "you've got to ask yourself one question: do I feel lucky?…"

When the discussion gets to this point, it occurs to me that, instead of all this agonizing, it might be best to either routinely treat your water or find a less stressful
activity. No offense intended.

Add your comments

PostedNov 16, 2009 at 7:35 pm

">> I think a fair number of us would be offering supporting, if anecdotal, evidence of heavy viral loads in western streams if that were the case.

In my defense, I didn't say that infested streams aren't out there. You only have to take a sample downstream of a cattle ford, after all. And I wouldn't, for example, drink from the South Platte. :o)

I was talking about our classic example- a small mountain stream relatively near its headwaters. I'm pretty sure several surveys found them generally untainted. (Haven't had a chance to search for references- sorry.)"

I guess I didn't express that very well, Dean. It was meant to support your comments. What I meant to say was: If most surface water carried a heavy viral load, there would be a lot of posts to this thread from folks who had gotten sick by drinking untreated water. Doesn't seem to be the case. That said, prudence dictates a careful evaluation of each source before deciding whether or not to treat, IMO.

PostedNov 17, 2009 at 4:30 pm

I use a first need "filter", and it is EPA rated to "filter" out virus.

I also believe that it is extreme overkill. The stream I am drinking from will NOT cause illness in healthy humans (children included). I'm not buying that it has any of the various strains of Entero Virus. None at all.

I actually only filter for taste and sediment removal. It's way overkill for that stream.

However, when I finally get to go somewhere else, I'll be able to drink the water without worry. :-)

PostedNov 17, 2009 at 4:53 pm

I don't mean to highjack the thread but someone mentioned refrigerator filters. As far as I'm concerned only chemical treatment under optimum conditions is almost, (Emphasis on almost) a guarantee. Then there are so many other vectors for bacteria and viruses that it gets a little scarey. Perhaps a gravity filter made from a fridge filter followed by the aqua-mira 2-step for final treatment. (Not sure of the brand but it's iodine and citric acid) or vice versa. I live in "pristine country" in Montana. I haven't done untreated water since the early eighties. I've pulled water from a source only to find a dead moose decomposing 500 yds upstream. Even after treatment we dumped it and spent an hour retreating the morning water. Things that make you go buhhhhh!!! Ever since I catch a wicked crawly rush from water I know isn't treated:(
Has anyone played with a fridge filter?

If it doesn't feel GOOD, you're doing it wrong.

BJ

PostedNov 17, 2009 at 7:17 pm

We did a trip about 6 weeks ago. All but myself used filters, I used Aqua Mira. Just the other day, one of our trip-mates emailed to say he had Giardia. He came down with diarrhea about 2-3 weeks after the trip, and had it for 3 weeks before he finally went to the doctor. They ran tests and confirmed it was Giardia. At first, he thought he had the flu.

On another trip, we were into the 3rd night of a 4 day trip. I went to bed feeling great, but an hour or so later, I was up every hour on the hour, with diarrhea for the rest of the night, until about 7:00 in the morning.
Luckily, I didn't have any more bouts with it, and it was our last day and "only" an 8 mile hike out.
My "self" drive home to say the least was not fun, as all I wanted to do was lay down and rest.
I used Aqua Mira, but also shared a filter, but no one else got sick other than myself?
I'm guessing that anything waterborne wouldn't have come on this quickly? (3 days)

PostedNov 17, 2009 at 8:02 pm

"I'm guessing that anything waterborne wouldn't have come on this quickly? (3 days)"

Not a parasite like giardia, but bacterial or viral infections manifest themselves within a day or two, IME.

PostedNov 18, 2009 at 5:39 am

“I think your current treatment sounds good… why change?

Mike,

If I could get rid of all pathogens without using chemicals, I wouldn’t have to wait a half hour for the chlorine to kill the viruses before I filter.

Thanks for posting the link to the CDC chart by the way. I think it’s unfortunate that they don’t define “moderate” and the other effectiveness modifiers because according to the chart, virtually every filter in popular use on the trail is only “moderately” effective against campylobacter, salmonella, shigella and e-coli.

I think everyone who’s been submitting comments or is just following this thread should follow this link to the CDC’s Camping, Hiking, Travel page. There is a wealth of information there and it’s compiled by people who aren’t selling water treatment paraphernalia. What they have to say about chlorine dioxide effectiveness is especially eye opening.

Next to boiling, which most of us take a pass on due to the logistical issues cited in this thread, the CDC recommends a combination of chemical treatment and 0.1 micron or lower filtration as the most effective water borne disease prophylaxis.

PostedNov 18, 2009 at 7:28 am

"(and I hope the otters, beavers, deer, geese, dogs and other backpackers that frequent your stream will stay down stream of you)"

I've never seen an otter, beaver or goose almost 30 years. I know if there are backpackers and dogs up stream. And NONE of these are ever frequent. It is a very under utilized stream. I think after 15 years of drinking the water completely untreated I'd have caught something if there was anything there.

I do filter now, but that's because I have the filter. ;-)

BTW, the First Need I have is EPA certified for virus. It's the only one as far as I know. So, if you are worried, get one of these.

PostedNov 18, 2009 at 10:07 am

"BTW, the First Need I have is EPA certified for virus. It's the only one as far as I know. So, if you are worried, get one of these."

Sawyer makes a 0.02 micron filter they claim removes viruses. That said, you may wish to consult this CDC web page: http://www.cdc.gov/crypto/factsheets/filters.html which states "The EPA does not approve or test filters".

PostedNov 18, 2009 at 10:44 am

Larry,

Yes, EPA sets the standards, but thought it important to point out that they don't certify anything because certification is taken as an endorsement by a trusted government agency by some people.

PostedNov 18, 2009 at 11:00 am

I didn't know who tested it prior to looking into it after your post!

And, BTW, I'm not endorsing the First Need. It does work, but I'm not very found of the company that makes it. If I did not currently have one I would NOT purchase one today, unless I was worried about viruses.

Dean F. BPL Member
PostedNov 23, 2009 at 7:25 am

Gawd, it's been a while since I checked the statistics, but IIRC it is important to remember that most cases of Giardiasis (and for that matter, Crypto) are NOT contracted from drinking from streams while hiking or whatever. A lot of cases get BLAMED on that because by sheer coincidence every so often the guy who gets Giardia from his local swimming pool or a failure of municipal water treatment just happens to have gone hiking recently. There are regular large outbreaks, as a matter of fact. Has anyone else in your region gotten sick?

OTOH, you certainly can get it from drinking stream water while hiking, too. But your buddy *may* have just gotten it from some other source, especially if no one else got sick.

By the way I did check Auerbach's (3rd ed., though), and it does say what I thought it would. Something along the lines of "some viruses are suspected to be virulent in doses as small as a few particles, in the most susceptible individuals." I would place emphasis on the phrase "most susceptible". I would further propose that by "most susceptible" the author is specifically referring to those on chemotherapy or with some other form of immune dysfunction, or other extreme examples, and is NOT talking about your average immune-competent hiker.

PostedNov 24, 2009 at 9:40 am

Following are my thoughts on some of your questions. For the record, I am paranoid and filter my water as well as treat it with Aqua Mira.

1) Do you regularly replace the filter core in your pump? (this one has never been replaced but still pumps well). How often should they be replaced?
I don't hike with enough frequency to "regularly" replace my filter cartridges, so I just try to do it every few years.

2) Do filter users worry about viruses?
Yes. I'm paranoid about getting a virus, and that's why I use a mechanical filter followed by Aqua Mira. I first filter my water, and then use Aqua Mira in the water I drink. I have a separate platy for the water I boil, and I don't treat that with the Aqua Mira. I also use hand sanitizer after doing the "deed", and before I eat to make sure my hands are clean.

4) Do you treat your pumped water with chemicals?
Yes, see answer to #2.

5) What would you do if you found yourself in a similar situation? (I told him I would have ditched the pack for the walk back).
Since I've never had it happen I don't know for sure. If I thought I could get out with my pack I would do that. If it were more serious I would probably do what I had to just to get out.

Dean F. BPL Member
PostedDec 6, 2009 at 3:25 pm

Having trouble finding data on viral contamination, but I did find this old article, about coliforms in Colorado (where I am):

Patti J. Psaris1 and David W. Hendricks2
(1) Black and Veatch, Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
(2) Engineering Research Center, Colorado State University, 80523 Fort Collins, Colorado, U.S.A.
Received: 22 May 1981 Revised: 19 October 1981
Abstract This paper describes the areal distribution of fecal coliform densities within the stream system of the South Platte River basin in Colorado. Low densities, e.g., 0 to 99 fecal coliforms per 100 ml, were found in mountain streams, while higher densities, e.g., 10000 to 100000 and above were found in plains streams. About 49 % of the plains stations and 3 % of the mountain stations were not in compliance with the Colorado secondary contact recreation standard of 2000 fecal coliforms per 100 ml.

I can find lots of information about horrid enterovirus counts in water downstream of bovine sources, and they have been found in groundwater in some areas, but still no data either way on the typical mountain stream.

Still looking.

Here's one, 2004:

Detection of human enteric viruses in stream water with RT-PCR and cell culture.
Denis-Mize K, Fout GS, Dahling DR, Francy DS.
US Geological Survey, Columbus, OH 43229, USA.
A multiplex RT-PCR method was used to measure virus occurrence at five stream water sites that span a range of hydroclimatic, water-quality, and land-use characteristics. The performance of the molecular method was evaluated in comparison with traditional cell culture and Escherichia coli membrane filtration assays. The study incorporated multiple quality controls and included a control for virus recovery during the sampling procedure as well as controls to detect potentially false-negative and false-positive data. Poliovirus recovery ranged from 16 to 65% and was variable, even in samples collected within the same stream. All five sites were positive for viruses by both molecular and cell culture-based virus assays. Enteroviruses, reoviruses, rotaviruses, and hepatitis A viruses were detected, but the use of the quality controls proved critical for interpretation of the molecular data. All sites showed evidence of faecal contamination, and culturable viruses were detected in four samples that would have met the US Environmental Protection Agency's recommended E. coli guideline for safe recreational water.

But it admits that these were all fecally contaminated streams.

Here's an exerpt from a paper written by a guy who works for Katadyn, so believe what you will:

Viruses carried in water, that infect humans, have only one source


human faeces from infected carriers. Waterborne viruses that cause disease include: rotavirus, caliciviruses-which now include the norovirus group with Norwalk virus, adenovirus, astrovirus, Hepatitis A & E, and enteroviruses (which include those that cause Polio and Viral-Meningitis). More than half of the infections with these viruses only cause mild or asymptomatic illness—but they can cause a wide range of serious and even life-threatening illnesses—-especially in children.
The two most common water-borne viruses in North America—-rotovirus and noroviruses are responsible for numerous outbreaks in restaurants each year of what is commonly called “food-poisoning”. Outbreaks of both have occurred from well or river water contaminated with raw sewage. The Center for Disease Control (CDC) has noted outbreaks of norovirus in the Grand Canyon of the Colorado River. The Grand Canyon outbreaks have been traced to a sewage treatment facility at the base of Glen Canyon Dam


just above the Grand Canyon.
Norovirus and the calcivirus group: Symptoms of norovirus are usually over within 48 hours, and include headache, fever, vomiting and diarrhea. Noroviruses are relatively resistant to environmental challenge from cold or heat. Moreover, noroviruses can survive in up to 10 ppm chlorine: well in excess of levels routinely present in public water systems (they are however destroyed by Chlorine Dioxide at 1ppm in 30 minutes.)
Rotavirus: The incubation period for rotavirus disease is approximately 2 days. The disease is characterized by vomiting and watery diarrhea for 3 – 8 days, and fever and abdominal pain occur frequently. Rotavirus is the most common cause of severe diarrhea among children, resulting in the hospitalization of approximately 55,000 children each year in the United States and the death of over 600,000 children annually worldwide.
Hepatitis A: Although hepatitis A, does cause occasional outbreaks in food in the U.S., it has not been recognized as a culprit in backcountry water disease here. However in South America, Africa, and Asia; it and other viruses can be life-threatening in contaminated water. Hepatitis A affects liver function and be a very serious disease, or a long-lasting low-grade infection. Immunization shots are strongly recommended for international travelers.
Hepatitis E has not been a problem in the U.S. water supply. It is estimated to cause 2% mortality in the general population and up to 30% mortality in pregnant women. Major waterborne epidemics have occurred in India (1955 and 1975-1976), USSR (1955-1956), Nepal (1973), Burma (1976-1977), Algeria (1980-1981), Ivory Coast (1983-1984), in refugee camps in Eastern Sudan and Somalia (1985-6), and in Borneo (1987). The first outbreaks reported in the American continents occurred in Mexico in late 1986.
Enteroviruses: The enterovirus family contains at least 62 different viruses that infect humans. The most dangerous cause Polio (now eradicated in the Americas); while others cause aseptic (viral) meningitis—symptoms include fever, severe headache, stiff neck, and nausea and vomiting. Most of the enteroviruses cause cold-like or flu-like symptoms. The CDC states: “Enteroviruses may be found in water sources such as private wells. Wells become contaminated when faeces from infected humans enter the water through various means, including sewage.”
Enteric adenovirus, astroviruses: These commonly infect young children with viral gastroenteritis. They may be transmitted by infected food or water. Viral gastroenteritis is usually a mild illness characterized by nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, malaise, abdominal pain, headache, and fever. The infectious dose is not known but is presumed to be low. Symptoms last 2 to 9 days.
Enteric adenovirus is the most common virus in this group and causes 5-20% of the gastroenteritis in young children. Adenoviruses most commonly cause respiratory illness; however, depending on the infecting serotype, they may also cause various other illnesses, such as gastroenteritis, conjunctivitis, cystitis, and rash illness. A recent study notes that adenovirus is not destroyed by UV light disinfection.

Full link here:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Whats-in-the-Water-Now?&id=710636

P.S.

I simply can't believe that I have to edit out the word "faeces" (but American spelling). Come on!

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