Super Ultra Light / Super Ultra Cheap

Please do restart this topic again, you peaked my curiosity when you mentioned a strong, almost free material at 3.4 oz/yard in the another thread. Even if you do not want to give us an in depth post, any chance you would share what kind of materials you are considering?
Always fun to watch your projects evolve.
Peter

I second Peter, please do repost your original threadstarter Bill. I read it last night and was about to reply when my inet connection packed up – it was late anyway.

You may have seen the discussion regarding the possibilities of a SUL air filled quilt on Steven's cuben/down quilt thread, I have started a new one for it. I for one am in total agreement with your observations about the availability of light materials for cheap or free.

Does this mean you might have some surplus 0.33 Cuben I can buy off you. ;-)

I will follow this thread closely also.

I enjoy working with construction grade tyvek for this very reason. It is relatively light,not expensive, water resistant, strong and bondable. It could be used to make numerous items typically found in most gear lists. A bivy, shelter, rain protection (cape, chaps) and even a pack bag. I think a 9' x 150' roll costs around $100.00, and it can often be found in usable size scraps for free. The tyvek material is not super UL but does provide a good performance/weight/cost ratio for MYOG projects.

Do we include MYOG?

This is all about MYOG but a long spoon from some ice cream place works as it should be free.

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Super Ultra Light / Super Ultra Cheap PT 1 – Making the Bivy:

The first picture shows the GG Ground Cloth laying on my pattern. The size of the Ground Cloth is almost the same size as my pattern. I am leaving a 1" seam allowance. This will allow me to turn it under to reinforce the seam.

1. GG Ground Cloth on the Pattern.

2. The GG Ground Cloth is cut and weighs 41 grams or 1.44 ounces. Cost for one of 2 GG Ground Cloths = $4.00 plus shipping.

3. The Propore on the Pattern ready to mark.

4. The Propore cut and ready to sew. The weight of the Propore Bivy Top is 4.7 ounces. Cost as a new Frogg Toggs Poncho = $11.50 plus shipping. I have 2 Frogg Toggs Ponchos on order and when I get them I will make another Bivy out of one of them.

5. Ready to start sewing.

Estimated cost for the materials only for the completed Bivy = $17.00 (+/-) a bit.
Estimated weight of the completed Bivy = 6 ounces (+/-) a bit

Sewing to follow.

NOTICE!!!!!!!!!

I had a lot of problems finding a way to sew the Polycryo material.

I would suggest anyone that wants to sew with this material that you do many tests and stress the seams a bit till you are happy with the sewing method.

6.

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8.

The Bivy weighs 6.1 ounces. I will make a small hood out of Propore and attach the hood sometime over the next day or so.

A "Waterproof / Breathable Bivy" like this can be made for about $17.00.

If you have an idea you would like to share leave a me comment.

> The Bivy weighs 6.1 ounces. I will make a small hood out of Propore and attach the hood sometime over the next day or so.

Doing the math from your provided specs provides: GG Ground Cloth (1.44 oz) + Propore Bivy Top (4.7 oz.) = 6.14 oz. What do you expect the hood to weigh? If it comes in around an ounce you'll have a very competetive bivy here.

God I love the way you think Bill. Keep it up.

THIS is gonna be a great thread! Thank You Bill.

re: 3.4oz/sqyd pack material
Sounds intriguing … is it a woven material by any chance? (working my brain trying to guess what it is)

re: polycryo
It has been said here on BPL forums that polycryo is the material used for heat shrink window insulation film. I have both and the tactile feel is the same, weight is the same within precision of my scale and I have noticed that the GG polycryo has shrunk a bit after being in a tarp's stuff sack on the outside of a pack on a hot sunny day. So, maybe it is the same material. If so, it is available in 62"x210" sheets for $9.89 and 84"x120" sheets for $8.39 (add shipping) at Amazon. I have not checked prices at local mass retail outlets.

The 84" width would make a single piece tarp for many folks who are also using a bivy.

Water bottles:
These might be pushing the boundaries required to reach SUL but the reused 1 liter soda/water bottles I use weigh in at 1.6oz (compared to 0.8oz for a 1 liter platypus).

Bill,

Great looking bivy there. Are you suggesting that the Polycro could be used to make a tarp? That would be quite a precarious tarp to weather a real storm under, no? Material seems very prone to puncture and tearing….though, I've only babied it so don't know for sure.

(great thread)

I’ve been keeping my eye out for sources along these lines for a while now.

One idea for a pack is to use one of these poly recyclable grocery bags that most stores are selling now as a base. Even REI has one for $1 —->

(rei shopping bag example link)

Tyvek leftovers are often available for free at construction sites (of course there are far fewer of these now), or on craigslist.

I also really like the idea of using wood/cane/bamboo for poles, frame components, utensils, etc. and intend on pursuing this more once I am done building our house.

It would be interesting to see some hypothetical SUL/SUC gear lists with dollar totals and sources.

Great thread. I've been wondering about how the GG ground cloths sew. What types of problems did you run into, Bill?

Bill,

Thanks for the posting. As always, very generous of you to share so much about your work.

Instant Bivy:

I received the two Frogg Toggs Ponchos this evening from Sierra Trading Post. Three and a half days after I ordered them. Quick shipping.

The Poncho is 52" wide by 87" long. The Poncho has three snaps on each side to close the Poncho when you are wearing it. The Poncho weighs 238 grams / 8.4 ounces.

The first thing I wanted to try was snapping both Ponchos together to make an "Instant Bivy".

I got in between the two snapped together Ponchos. My room was 76 degrees "F" and I think I started to get warm in the "Instant Bivy".

The cost for a Bivy like this would be $24.00 for the two Ponchos.
The weight for two Ponchos used as a Bivy would be about 16.8 ounces. This would figure out to $1.45 per ounce.

I think a Bivy made from two Frogg Toggs Ponchos would make a good multi use piece of gear. A Poncho when needed and your Bivy at night.

The Frogg Toggs DriDucks material maybe as good or better than eVent and it sure cost a lot less.

1. Both Frogg Toggs Ponchos snapped together.

2. Frogg Toggs Poncho open halfway.

what about two pieces of equal size 2.5m x 1.5m , one breathable the other not, sewn together down one long side with various tie tabs sewn on.

Hi Bill, nice simple idea. I wondered about making a bivy out of a clothing grade tyvek XXL overall. Just cut up the leg inseams and glue together. Maybe do the same with the arms for more lofting space for the quilt. I guess it would work for a shorty, but I'm XXL anyway length ways. Would probably be a lot lighter than two ponchos.

The cost for a Bivy like this would be $24.00 for the two Ponchos.
The weight for two Ponchos used as a Bivy would be about 16.8 ounces. This would figure out to $1.45 per ounce.

I think a Bivy made from two Frogg Toggs Ponchos would make a good multi use piece of gear. A Poncho when needed and your Bivy at night.

Bill, what about using one poncho, plus a gusset to make up the required circumference, instead of the second poncho. You'd probably only need another 10-20" of material, plus a means to attach it to the poncho. Maybe you could attach it directly to the underside of your closed cell mat, and do away with a gusset all together

Thanks to all of you that have taken some time to comment.

The great part of all of this is that there is no one right answer.

Their are many different ways to get to an answer and many answers will start with just trying what you have around you. Not everything will work but that is OK also. Each idea should lead to the next idea etc, etc.

The Frogg Toggs – DriDuck material is really nice. It is to bad we can't buy it by the yard. But since we can't buy eVent we can buy the Poncho and use the material from it. As best I can figure the DriDucks material from a Frogg Toggs Poncho cost $2.86 a sq yard.

Going back to my first idea for this material, when used with the Gossamer Gear Polycryo Ground Cloth it will make a Bivy that would weigh a bit less then 10 ounces and a cost of $13 plus shipping.

I have to order a couple more of the GG Ground Cloths.

jcolten: "re: polycryo
It has been said here on BPL forums that polycryo is the material used for heat shrink window insulation film. I have both and the tactile feel is the same, weight is the same within precision of my scale and I have noticed that the GG polycryo has shrunk a bit after being in a tarp's stuff sack on the outside of a pack on a hot sunny day.

The 84" width would make a single piece tarp for many folks who are also using a bivy."

I haven't seen the GG polycryo ground sheet, but I have some of the window insulation shrink film. It's surprisingly tough, but I'm a little skeptical of using it for a tarp.
Pulling on a 3" strip of it tears with a snap straight across; it doesn't take a lot of force. On the plus side, the double sided tape holds well with zero curing time. Pulling on a 3" strip taped to itself, the tape holds and the film tears. Perhaps if it is carefully engineered so forces are spread across a much larger area it would work. The same film is used for inside or outside "storm windows", just the tape is different, so it must hold up to a certain amount of wind.

Perhaps doing the old trick of using the seams to add strength along high tension lines might work — by folding it several times at seams and a couple lines of tape.
Two brands at amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/3M-2144W-Indoor-Patio-Insulator/dp/B0000CBJ80/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_b $15.95+shipping.
http://www.amazon.com/Henkel-00-09123-120-Inch-Shrink-Patio/dp/B000NHW2Z6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1244313830&sr=8-4 $8.39 plus shipping.

Hope your feeling up to snuff these days.

I always love these SUL/SUC threads. I think they really force us to challenge our traditional ways of thinking. I mean, it's easy to go SUL if you toss a bunch of cash at the problem.

Using your mind, however, can be a challenge.

I make it a point to take at least one Ultra Cheap weekend hike every season. It gives you a great feeling to reduce your dependence on gear, gear, gear.

Let me put the old thinking cap on yet again.

being a cheap b**tard myself I like the idea of super light / super cheap. I made a mesh fanny pack out of two toy biners and a mesh childs climbing harness sack. Total weight 1.8 oz, enough to carry a trail guide a 2+l Platy and some other odds and ends. Total cost, free…

Just thought I'd wake up this topic a bit.

'tis the season to check out my inventory of handwear and it's more than well worn! So it's off to my favorite glove source (the grocery store):

These are fuzzy knit acrylic. Maybe not as warm as possum down but still very effective for 25F-35F @1.5oz and $2.99:

Not exactly PowerStretch although the exterior looks/feels kinda similar, interior kinda fleece like. Should work well when active down into the mid 20's (F again) … I'll test that on trail the next three days. 1.2oz and $4.99:

Fleece gloves for the downtime when in camp. A whopping 2.0oz and the price has ballooned up to $5.99 but cold hands make time pass SO slowly:

Now the wind will slice through all those almost like they aren't there … unless I cover them with MYOG wind shell mitts. These'll also be along on this weekend's hike. They are a prototype made with "beefy" 1.9oz ripstop. 0.9oz and cost almost nothing once you have the things needed to play the MYOG game. I'll likely replace these with mitts made using a pattern from Quest Outfitters:

This is what BPL/MYOG does to one's shopping habits. I don't go in to a store any longer w/o perusing the shelves for potential UL and Cheap projects. Went to the vacuum cleaner shop for a belt and noticed some baskets of goodies for a $1. So, here I am bumping elbows w/ little old ladies looking for bargains. Like those mitts, I might have enough sil left from my bivy to make a set….?

I noticed earlier in the thread that the price of driducks style ponchos were mentioned. I got one for $7 and some change at the local Academy a couple of months ago. I'll check the price the next time I'm in there to see what they are now.

I have a Frogg Toggs pullover. The "fuzz" coating has bunched up like fur or fuzz balls on a wool sweater only much larger. It catches and grabs onto twigs or leaves which is why I gave up using tyvek as a ground cover. Unless frogg toggs have a new smooth material, I would not use it as a ground cover.
For a ground cover I just use a piece of coated nylon just a tab wider than my sleeping bag, or the bottom of a homemade bivy which is silnylon.

Home Depot sells a painter's ground cloth that is easily as thick as Frogg Toggs and can be sewed. I use it when making test patterns. It is probably the heaviest ml, though I cannot remember the exact number.