backpacking with dogs

The OP said he works a full time and a part time job. Good luck house training a puppy (and keeping paper, walls, sofas, beds,etc. safe) with out using a crate. And if you are willing to let a new shelter dog (and remember most shelter dogs are there because of some behavioral issue) have free run of your house while you are at home with out an adjustment period then you are braver than I. Lastly if you want to talk about the dangers of leaving two bully breeds at home alone you can pm me.

Ali, it may seem like a small mix-up to you, but to me it was a slam against my character and highly offensive. Big deal indeed.

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Art – please remember we have minors reading this channel, and keep the language clean.
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So don't get a puppy get a shelter dog that is already house trained. Seems like a simple solution.

While house training a pup I leave him in the crate all the time unless he is peeing or playing so that would be more than 60 hours a week but not more than a few hours at a time so a puppy will not work for this guy.

No reason an adult dog can't be in a crate most of the day during the adjustment period either hell he'd have been in a crate pretty much 24-7 at the shelter.

I know well the "dangers" of 2 bully breeds. Mine were crazy before I stared using the "Dog Whisper" method and walking them every day. Works like a charm. You just have to remember that in the dogs mind you are either the pack leader or a follower but not a friend or an equal.

I've changed my mind about the dog nanny, I think I want to be a dog nanny. Think I could make 30k a year doing it?

Sorry Art :( I'm lisdwxic and have double vision and I got confused which seems to happen more and more now that I hit 40.

Jesse, you could easily make 30k a year as a dog nanny but I have to say Mine was much cuter ( Is that a word?) than you. :) Ali

Hi Jack! Let me first start by saying I'm not a big fan of dogs on the trail anymore, but there was a time when I did have a dog and we were out on a trail somewhere all the time. One reason for that is, as with all things, change is inescapable. When once I could go out and meet not another person all day, now I'll bump into 300 or more if I go up to Snow Lake near Snoqualmie Pass. I just fail to see how it's fair to subject my dog to the stress of dealing with 300 strangers, many of whom are in abject fear of running into a dog on the trail, leashed or not (especially children), and no telling how they'll react.

Another reason is that because of the increased use of the backcountry and subsequent degradation of its essential pristine nature, many areas are now listed as off limits to dogs. But I see dogs on these trails all the time! On the other trails dogs are ok IF they are on a leash. I hardly ever see a dog on a leash. When they are asked about that the owner will reply that the dog is under voice control. Yet they have absolutely no control when the dog goes off after an animal. Voice control, right! (In all fairness there is such a thing as voice control, but the vast majority of dog owners don't have a clue). In Montana a dog who tries to run down a deer is shot on sight, because after they taste blood the only thing that will stop them is a bullet.

Be that as it may, since you are here on the BPL site I'm sure that you're a cut above the hoi poloi and don't do any of the stuff mentioned above. And since you are interested in a great, if not good, trail dog, I'd like to direct you to issue 9 of Backpackinglight magazine and the story on Justin Lichter and his dog Yonni. Together they hiked the Triple Crown (AT, CDT, PCT) in less than a year! Check it out for an inspiring and breathtaking story. BTW, Yonni is half St Bernard, half Border Collie. Happy trails!

>In Montana a dog who tries to run down a deer is shot on sight, because after >they taste blood the only thing that will stop them is a bullet.

Ok I changed my mind this is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in my life. Please tell me you don't really believe it.

Almost any working farm breed of dog would make a good trail dog, as long as they are completely trained to NOT chase any other animals. Think about it…a farm dog may work an 8-hour day, then spent the next 16 hours in a crate, so lots of down time is not a problem as long as they get a good run every day.

Otherwise, any lower energy dog will work too. The important thing is that, come weekends, you get them out there putting in the miles, building up stamina etc…but avoid high impact agility type exercise until their bones are fully formed. If starting with a pup (recommended), try to expose them to as many new experiences as you can early on. Things like children, people wearing funny hats, people with packs on, cars, boats, bicycles, skateboards, rain, snow, ice, other pets, livestock, tents, river crossings, swingbridges, etc…make them feel entirely comfortable in these situations.

Getting a dog depends a lot on your situation like others have allready said. I know first hand how much time a puppy takes because mine is 15 weeks old. He's a handful

If you have a wife, GF or roommate that will help when your away I'd recommend a Puppy. I think if you put in the time you'll end up with a better behaved trail companion. If you don't have a puppy sitter an older dog may be better for a couple of reasons. A puppy needs a companion at all times when it's young. It's also the begining of backpacking season and time to get out and hike. A puppy shouldn't hike long distances until it's at least a year old (even older for large breeds) so you would have to find a way to leave him behind when you go out for days at a time this season. If you do decide to get a puppy I'd jump on it quick that way he'll be old enough for next season. If you you think an older dog would be better for you animal shelters around military bases are great places to to find young dogs that need new homes. As for the breed I'm partial to Labs because of their gentleness with children/other pets, Playful friendly stereotype, and how well they take to obiedience training. He's my 4th Lab and is showing great potential. I just recently took him on a short overnighter and he did great. Here's Oakley again.

Nice looking dog Matthew, I've always liked labs and I still might get one. I use to have a chocolate lab she was a great dog. I'm just not sure about thier instincts for hunting, I don't want a dog chasing every thing it smells or hears. I know it would be great with people on the trail just worried about critters.

Thanks Jack, your right, they do need to be broken of this habit. Obedience training with a choke collar/leash and someone rolling his favorite toy or kicking a soccer ball helps. A firm understanding of the word NO helps too but they really do need actual encounters with wild animals. Oakley will be on a leash for a long time but even when he's free he should still walk beside or behind me not 50 feet out then back to their owner over and over like most dogs I see on the trail. I wish national parks could issue a license that allows them on their trails once they pass some kind of course.

Lets not give out training advice in this forum, especialy advice that could injure a dog or puppy. I have professionally trained dogs for years and can not think of a worse way to teach a dog the word "no" than to let a excited lab run full bore at their favorite toy only to hit the end of a choke (why do people still want to choke their dogs?) chain. I would suggest not giving out potentially dangerous advice (ever seen a dog with a collapsed trachea?) unless you have the experience and training to back it up…and having raised dogs is not enough experience. If your are curious about training then feel free to pm/email me, if you want to give training advice then do it over PM. This is a backpacking site right?

Your right. Training advice shouldn't be given over the forum because it could be misinterpreted the way you just showed me. Thanks.

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LOL. I'd recommend staying with that breed and continue to shoot them until you get lucky and find one that doesn't chase deer. I can recommend a caliber but that may be considered training advice so I'll have to PM you.

I agree this is not the forum to offer dog training advice, as there are as many different ways to train a dog as there are dog owners, and the potential for contention is huge.

BUT, directly related to backpacking is that, however you go about it, your dog should be trained rock-solid to walk behind you, right behind you, with his full attention focused on your heels. He should do this with or without a chain on, and never left to wander around sniffing and roaming where he pleases.

Why should my dog walk behind me? I trained her at the time to walk in front of me so I didn't have to turn around and see where she is and what she's up to. So now she stays in front. We trust each other and we're fine. She's a hunter, such is her nature. Catches mice. Runs after a rabbit occasionally. But IS under voice control. Why does she need to be BROKEN of ANY habit? It's not hard to make your dog submit, especially when you're using chokers and violence. By the way that was the first time I'd heard of that training method of teaching your dog what NO means by playing and then choking it. How absurd! I still can't understand how anybody who claims to love their dog will use and advocate such a method.. Why take all the life out of your dog just for the sake of her listening to you?
Yes, having 'your' dog listen to you is important in a number of situations, but there are gentler ways of achieving this. Patience goes a long way. Training a dog isn't a matter of a few weeks training course and yanking a choker and shouting no and breaking a will and being done with it and look how well s/he listens to me!

"Why should my dog walk behind me?"

Two reasons (at least). The first being the question of "who is the leader of your pack?". The second is having your dog the first to come face to face with someone coming down the trail from the other direction who is scared to death of dogs. I face this problem even with my 8lb little bundle of licks and kisses. Some folks just go ape when they see a dog, especially off leash. Keeping your dog behind you is polite to other trail users.

All dogs are hunters by nature. My little 8-pounder doesn't naturally know that it is ridiculous to try and chase a sheep or cow or whatever. He can't physically hurt them much, but he can worry them, scare them into a dangerous run, and really p**s-off farmers. Heaven forbid he should catch and injure/kill any of our native protected birds. To have a safe trail dog, this hunting instinct should be tempered, at least to the point where YOU have the final say on whether or not they are allowed to chase prey (you are the leader, right).

"By the way that was the first time I'd heard of that training method of teaching your dog what NO means by playing and then choking it. How absurd! I still can't understand how anybody who claims to love their dog will use and advocate such a method."

That's the way it was often done "in the old days", and is still common practice amongst people who use their dogs as working dogs (eg farm dogs) rather than as pets. It's not my style, but is not as uncommon as I would like to think…even amongst pet owners. It may be that's how they learned from THEIR parents, who learned it from THEIR parents, or whatever.

Excellent post, Lynn!

A good alternative to the standard training collar (misnamed choke collar–it's not supposed to be used for choking) is the Premier Pet Products' Gentle Leader head collar. I used it to train my dog. Canine Companions for Independence (where my dog came from) uses it for all their training. Guide Dogs for the Blind is using it more and more. Just remember that the Gentle Leader is to be used gently–a gentle twitch, not a jerk! Misusing any collar–whether choke collar or head collar–could result in injury to your dog. My-daughter-the-veterinarian, while in vet school, treated a lot of dogs with injured, even ruptured larynxes due to misuse of the standard training collar. I've seen dogs in training regress from the standard training collar to the prong collar ("choke collar" with prongs, ouch!) and finally be cured of pulling on the leash after one or two sessions with the Gentle Leader. I have a neighbor with two beautiful Brittany spaniels which used to pull him around the block; since he switched to Gentle Leaders they have become walking advertisements for this gadget.

It's possible to train dogs to leave game alone, but you really need to work at it. I visit the beach a lot. I've trained my dog to leave shore birds alone, and he's really good about it, but one day when we came upon a baby seal on the beach, he ran right up to it before I realized that it was a seal and not a clump of kelp. (Verbal commands are useless close to the surf, and since he was watching the seal hand signals weren't any help either). However, the baby seal let out a loud "ROWF" and my dog jumped back at least 10 feet. I got him out of there in a hurry!

If your dog will not leave wildlife (down to the last chipmunk) alone, including not barking at them, then keep him on leash and train him to the "leave it" command.

The Washington Trails Association just posted a list of "Ten Essentials" for hiking dogs. (http://www.wta.org/trail-news/signpost/861/?searchterm=Essentials) Number one is obedience training!

I strongly recommend keeping your dog on leash most or all of the time. That's what I do. It's far better than losing the dog, having it chase or kill wildlife or causing anxiety to the considerable number of your fellow-hikers who are nervous around dogs (usually with very good reason!).

Thanks for the laughs Matthew and Dave I had a long day at work and when I read the new post I couldn't stop laughing. I'm not looking for any training on this site, but I think I will look into the Gentle Leader, thanks for your post Mary.

As long as I know she listens and I can trust her, she has her freedom. We did, and still do, a lot of training because I thought this to be the most important thing if we are to live together the way we live.

I hardly ever encounter anyone on the trails I walk, so it's not much of a concern. When I do though, I call her, she comes and walks next to me.

For me there's no point to have her with me if she would just walk behind me, at some point you'd forget she's even there. I love watching her run and play. We're not in the army. We're just out for a walk.

But that's just what works for me. We all have our different ways of going about things, some better than others. They are definitely valid points to keep in mind.

Hm, I remember reading about the way horses used to be (are) broken. Never made the connection that it would be the same for dogs. People can be awful. Ofcourse there's always the excuse of ignorance..

Nobody is playing with the dog. This is just a distraction while training. Their are many distractions In a dogs life including kids playing with toys across a busy street. I'm not teaching the dog NO at this time either. I said "A firm understanding of the word NO helps too" meaning it "helps" with training. The word's BROKEN and CHOKE CHAIN my be harsh words but I just used the word BROKEN in place of, taught not to do something, and choke collar in place of training collar. A choke collar, while complely humane and safe, hasn't been on oaklies neck yet because he's still too young and I still my convert to another collar. I'm not letting the dog run or lunge at anything either. He has about 1 foot of loose lead coming straight down from my hand to his neck. No room for him to create any momentum or run like some people are picturing. Any collar can injure a dog if you let the dog do this. Training is also done in stages. As a puppy I teach them to follow me by walking around and giving lots of praise so when it's time for leash training all that's needed are mostly verbal and slight leash corrections. This way has worked with the last two dogs I've assisted in training but they were both Lab puppies and different training methods are needed for different breeds and adult dogs. My methods may still be looked down upon and even wrong, so this post isn't meant to be considered training advice but hopefully to assure members I'm not a cruel, ignorant dog owner. Please reread my original post on page 2 that caused so much controversy "Hunting instincts". I really like the book "How to be your dog's best friend". It really helped my last dog Duke become the perfect companion. Sadly, he died of a "collapsed trachea".