Gear List – Most Economical way to reduce

>He could consider using the Kilo like a quilt. A lot of folks (myself included) eased their way into quilting that way. At 57" shoulder girth it'd layer well over a lot of high log clothing if needed.

I've done that with my Summerlite. The main problem I find is that the hood gets in the way. For a side-sleeper like me it's not as big a problem as it would be for a back sleeper; you have to figure out a way to keep the hood folded down and not covering your face. But definitely, it's a good way to get a feel for how a quilt would work.

> If you like the Osprey Atmos, look at the Exos line. The Exos 46 is only 2lb 5oz. An even 2lbs if you remove the optional lid, which you shouldn't need with your amount of gear.

It is funny that you said this. I actually just got back and re-tried the Exos 58 on. It is an awesome pack, and rides very well. I was just highlighting the Atmos as it was only $95. It is crazy that the Exos actually rides better. I thought your 2lb 5oz was wrong (but it is not), because the Exos 58 specs say 2lb 3oz. That is weird. Also, Exos 58 is $175 at backcountry.

> 20oz is pretty heavy for a Tarp.

My tarp bag has extra guyline in there that I probably need to cut out. It is a 8×10 tarp. Also it has bungee type cords at the tie-outs rather than guy line. It keeps it taunt and helps reduce flapping in the wind. (A repair guy added this to my tarp at Trail Days after a guy tripped over it and ripped by tarp in the night)

> The REI Kilo is a good cheap bag but I've read complaints as to it's snugness. At 57" shoulder girth, its 2" narrow than my WM Summerlite, and a lot of people on these forums consider the Summerlite too claustrophobic for their tastes.

I have been a little concerned about this, as I had noticed this in the dimensions. But don't have in store to try out in person. I guess I could order try out and return if too small. Jim's idea is not bad, as i have been looking into the quilt option. Although might be annoying to lie on a zipper.

>It is crazy that the Exos actually rides better. I thought your 2lb 5oz was wrong (but it is not), because the Exos 58 specs say 2lb 3oz. That is weird. Also, Exos 58 is $175 at backcountry.

If you are taking the specs from REI’s website, or the tag on the bag at REI, those specs are wrong. I recall an Exos thread when it was reviewed by BPL and somebody called Osprey and was told that their website has the most accurate specs, which puts the Exos 58 medium at 2lbs 8 oz. It gained weight between the production models and the released version. REI specs are based on the production specs. The person who contacted Osprey also found out that the detachable lid weighs 3.7oz.

For you gear list, I’d think the 58 is a bit large.

> I recall an Exos thread when it was reviewed by BPL and somebody called Osprey and was told that their website has the most accurate specs, which puts the Exos 58 medium at 2lbs 8 oz.

Wow, annoying. And here I thought that I had a ~2 lb pack.

You think I would be ok with a 46? I guess the only concern would be, not sure if there would be enough room for a long ~7 day resupply or be able to handle any winter gear.

Well, if you want it to be your winter pack as well, the 58 might be best. I used a 3600 cubic inch North Face pack last winter, and it was just enough space for my winter gear. For summer, I'm using a 2800ci pack, and not filling it all the way.

If I like the Osprey Exos, are there any other comparable packs that I should give a try?

>About 2 days ago it did get sold out. However, I contacted the REI customer service and they told be they would be restocking it Thursday (today) as they would be receiving a new order. And sure enough, it is back up today.
http://www.rei.com/outlet/category/22000021

Sweet. Thanks for the tip, Rich.

As long as flame doesn't contact the foil, it will last quite a while. Standard foil is what I use w/my SuperCat. I am going to cut an aluminum oven liner to make a replacement for it, though. More durable.

How does the Vapor Trail compare to the Exos? Would love to try it out, although not too many carry it in-store.

To me the two packs are quite different.

The Vapor Trail has a flat framesheet that sits right against your back like many lighter packs.

The Exos has a frame that keeps the pack curving away from the back. A comparable pack would be a Gregory Z 55.

There have been a lot of discussions on the topic of whether or not a pack that curves away from your back is optimal. The reason for the curvature is to keep the pack off your back and thus should let some air in between you and the pack. That doesn't matter to me since I like the pack against my back (I use a G Gear Mariposa Plus).

Ok, so I found a Vapor Trail. Initially, I liked it a lot. It has very thick padding. I thought it would do the trick. After loading my gear in it a couple of time and wearing the pack for awhile I'm starting to have some second guesses.

Since it has the flat padding and stay it tends to angle away for the back (away from shoulder). You can somewhat adjust this by tightening down the shoulder straps snug. This feels pretty good initially, but after awhile I imagine that it might make the shoulder hurt since it will be placing more weight on the shoulders instead of the hips where it should be. The shoulder suspension straps should take care of this, but they are virtually ineffective since they are not attached to the pack stays. Maybe it just takes a lot of practice to pack the bag properly?

Anyway, I'm thinking I would probably prefer the Exos. But, i'm not sure I want to spend that much at the moment. After it has been out awhile, i probably could pick it up for much cheaper (maybe?).

However, I did find some good deals, I would say. I found a Vapor Trail for $80, very lightly used. Also, an Atmos 50 '08 new for $75. (Although not positive the 50 is quite big enough) So, I'm thinking maybe just get the Atmos or VT and I probably can resell it in a year, get my money back and maybe by a used Exos then.

Any thoughts?

Rich, are you packing it with the Moonstone Synthetic? If so, that might be your problem. You could try to simulate a down bag in packed size and weight. Your problem sounds like when I first got into backpacking…I just happened to start with a Vapor Trail and a Moonstone synthetic bag. No matter what you do, the synthetic is going to be bulky unless you compress it with the right shape compressor, and then they are still kind of bricklike.

Re: easing into quilts by using a bag like a quilt:

I spent a winter in Afghanistan using my monstrously heavy government-issue synthetic bag like a quilt, and laying on the zipper never bothered me. Didn't even notice. Usually I was so tired I could have slept on a scrap-heap, though.

Incidentally, I just converted to down from synthetic with a JRB quilt, and thus far my very limited testing has leftg me a down convert.

Re: Buying a pack last:

I think you have the right idea, here. Everything I have ever read, including Ryan's book and this forum, recommend getting all your other gear first and buying a pack last so that you know it all fits correctly. However I will note that this is a rule usually observed by ignoring it. Personally, I have never had the discipline to do this. Those packs are just so darn seductive!

Re: Buying a pack last:

As I indicated, I originally didn't plan on getting a new pack right away, in part b/c I didn't want to spend the money for it now and also because I would rather put the money into down and a new pad.

However, since I found some pretty good deals it seems a little hard to pass up.

Am I correct that I should be able to resell these packs, no problem later at $75 and $80?

Also, while looking for a sleeping bag, I came across a great deal. However it was for a women's bag, Golite Feather 20 deg. It is such a great deal I was thinking of buying it and doing one of the following: Covert into a quilt, extract the down to make my own bag/quilt, or resell and make a few bucks to put towards a bag/gear purchase. How much do you think this bag is worth?

Rich,

How much are you carrying in your Vapor Trail (weight-wise)? I recently tried out my Vapor Trail and it seemed somewhat uncomfortable (maybe) because I was carrying a little over 30 lbs. I think, if I leave the beer at home it may be much more comfortable.

Need to lose about 7-8#
start off with the Tent/shelter, bag and pack, plus pad. I will give you my thoughts and you can price them from there.

If you add all this stuff up below including opt #1 for raingear/shelter it saves you about 8.5#

A new sleeping bag and backpack are going to be the most expensive. Everything else is not that bad.

A down bag will save you some weight, but very expensive.
If you are like me you prefer synthetic full bags.
Quilt is an option to save weight.

A montbell UL #2 25d F down hugger is expensive weighs 28oz vs 54oz

New Them-a-rest short length 12oz vs 38oz
A full length 3/8 blue pad weighs 4oz

New backpack, should be able to chop 32 oz or more off that easily depending on if you can live with no frame, sheet frame etc.

Option #1 on the raingear –
Get a campmor extended poncho/tarp 9.5 oz vs 20+12.5+11+5
IE lose the other rain gear and the pack cover or make a cuben multiuse pack cover.
Gutter nails or titanium stakes 3 oz vs 6 oz
Get a el cheapo vinyl raincoat for wet setup 2 oz

Option #2 on rain gear –
Lighter tarp – 12 oz+3 vs 20
Froggtogs – jacket and pants 12.5oz vs 23.5 and cheap
Carry some spare duct tape and use this as an extra layer.

I use a heinken can pot, IE cook in a bag 1 oz vs 9 oz
How about a spork, lighter etc etc etc

Miscellaneous
Cell Phone in pocket less 4
Aqua Mira is not fast enough for me

How about a med and emergency kit.

I went to an REI Attic Sale last weekend.

I picked up a Prolite 3 ~19.5oz for $12.83.
I also picked up an REI Halo 25 deg. 31oz(per REI)

So these two items saved me around 2.5 pounds, and brings my base weight down to ~ 15 pounds.

I am probably going to go with an Osprey Atom 50 that will save me another 1.5 lbs, bringing base weight down to ~ 13.5 lbs.

If I ever make it up to Bass Pro Shop I will probably pick up a pair of the Dri Ducks and see how that works out.

Also, what's the deal with the Gutter nails you suggested?

I purchased a K-Mart grease pot today, 9-15-09.

I used a Driducks poncho as my rain gear and ground cloth last week on a 3 day 2 night trip (right at the end of all the rain we've been getting in central Texas the last couple of weeks.

At 8.1 oz, according to my scale, it served double duty quite nicely. As has been said, the material is a little fragile but it's definitely water proof and seems to be holding up well as a ground cloth so far. It was $7 and some change at Academy.

To answer your question (sort of), if the material for the jacket and pants are the same as the poncho it should hold up fine as a jacket but I think pants might wear out somewhat prematurely from the additional stress.

"I am probably going to go with an Osprey Atom 50 that will save me another 1.5 lbs, bringing base weight down to ~ 13.5 lbs."

Be aware that the "ultralight" Osprey packs do not have swappable belts/straps, and that they are lighter/more thinly padded than many have found comfortable. Be very sure that the fit is good – seems to be about 50/50 positive/negative in reviews of these.

I found the women's version to be great in general – until I got a few miles out, when it began to feel like two ton lead weights leaning on my hip bones. I was well within the rated load limit.

I too had reservations about buying Granite Gear sight unseen – but! if you don't like the hip belt/straps that come with the pack, you can send it to them and they will swap them out for a different size or more/less padded version! I love my GG pack. I have a Nimbus Ozone – the Nimbus series has the tepex framesheet that allows you to adjust the straps wider/narrower or up/down the sheet to further customize fit. Since fitting a pack has been such a hassle for me, this was worth the risk, and as luck would have it the pack arrived (on sale! from Sierra Trading Post) with just the right belt/straps.