When Blue Foam Pad Is No Longer Good Enough…

Ben,

I just ordered the NightLight, as soon as it comes in, I’ll let you know how it works.

I too have had the same problem finding a happy medium between comfort sleeping, and comfort in my pack. I’ve been through a couple of full length inflatables, my favorite being the Insulmat Maxlite, (this might not be the correct name, if you need it, I’ll check)

I wonder if the InsulMat Uberlite might be something for you to look at in conjunction with a closed cell for your pack frame/sit pad?

Sorry Ben,

I had the Max-Compact.

Benjamin,
I use a similar combination to what you are thinking about. I use a BPL Torsolight inflatable in combination with the Gossamer Gear NightLite torso pad. Total length is 60 inches and very comfortable.

I use the Nighlight as the frame in my G5 pack and it works good. My unscientific observation is that the Nightlite is a little stiffer than a blue foam pad and will work better as a frame than a blue foam pad.

I also have a thermarest prolite 3S (48 inches). The Torsolite is a little bit more comfortable and warmer for me than the prolite even though it is a bit narrower.

Cheers
Dan

For close cell, my observations of increasing comfort are: standard blue, Z-Rest, Ridgerest, Evazote [Mt.W, GG, etc.]. For me, inflatables pretty much go by thickness and how firm/soft you can blow them.

There are some interesting trade-offs here. I’ve also had my eye on the Insul Mat Uberlite. I’d couple it with a Gossamer Gear Thinlight and my pack for under the legs. If a pack frame were needed, I might stick with my sawed-off Ridgerest [18×36] and add the Thinlight for more insulation when needed. An alternative would be to chop a NightLight down to 2 sections [~20×20], which would make a respectable frame, sit pad, and when you add your frameless pack as bedding, you’ll give some length to a torso- or 3/4-length inflatable mat.
-Mark

for quite a while I was always using the GG Nightlight.. It’s a fantastic weight for such a functional pad. It has plenty of comfort and thickness and works really well as a pack frame due to the stiffness.

However I’ve almost completly done away with pads in my neck of the woods. I used a thinlight for a bit but found it to be too soft in my pack to keep a good frame. So I switched over to a cut down sunvisor. Now I’m going to go out on a limb and say that they are quite possibly the best pad I have used. I sleep on the floor even in my house (yes I have access to a perfectly good bed but I’ve gotten so used to sleeping on the floor over the years that I can’t sleep in them anymore.) I know its a rediculous idea and it’s completely flawed but I reckon that the reflective surface used upwards provides a huge amount of extra warmth through reflected heat. It could also be the foam that my pad is made from, a kind of slippery closed cell foam. While it’s only about 3mm/ 1/10″ thick it’s a really warm pad and serves me well in winter. For the rest of the year I’ve taken to selecting good sites and using leaves and grass for insulation. Padding isn’t a necessity for me.

My base weight for 3 season is about 5.5 pounds. I use a Thermarest ProLite 3 3/4 length. In my pack MLD Prophet 30 pack, I roll it into a tube and place all my gear inside the tube. From an engineering point of view, a tube of any material is MUCH stronger than a sheet of the same material (although that also depends on how the structure is being loaded / stressed). An inflatable pad is useless as a “pack frame” when folder flat. I don’t think it does much as a tube either… but at least it gives the pack a nice, consistant structured shape and goes a long way towards protecting the bag as well since the pack material now has a consistant, resilient backing material with no voids behind the pack material. That said, personally, I think that if your total pack with food, water is 12 pounds or less… you really don’t need any kind of “pack frame” anyway.

In the future, I may experiment with a TorsoLite / NightLite combo.

I prefer a Ridgerest. I find it satisfies my comfort and warmth requirements. It is reasonably lightweight and can easily be cut shorter for lighter weight. The price is right($20) although it is hard to beat the price of a cheap blue foam pad! I also find that the ridges hold any condensation from nightime insensible perspiration, for me this is a big plus. It also does a fine job creating a virtual frame.

I use a Thermarest Ultralight cut down to 20×30 for both frame and sleep pad for three seasons.

I’m sure the NightLite will work fine for your frame. There are numerous kinds of generic blue foam. Some I would deem better for the frame but less desireable for sleeping and others the opposite. Its hard to say which you are trying to compare.

The next level would probably be the
Pacific Outdoor (Insul Mat) max-thermo I know of two people online that I respect that swear by them. IIRC they are coming out with a short version this spring which would fit in with your closed cell frame stategy.

Last night I slept on an Exped Downmat 7 short which has similar dimensions to the Insul Mat short. It was my first night in the field with it and was very comfortable on my side or belly. It wasn’t too terribly cold (32F) but I was still impressed that I could sleep with the side of my face directly on the mat and not feel any cold come up from below.

I use frameless backpacks. I also use the Pacific Outdoor Insul Mat Max Thermo. It weight 22 oz and is 2.5′ thick. It gives me a GREAT nights sleep and is well worth the extra weight. I works fine as a frame sheet..I just fold it over 4 times and put it in the pack.

Thanks, everyone, for your insights — looks like quite a few items to research!

Does anyone use the POE über-lite pad? It’s 17″ x 37″ x 1″ and only 8 oz (227g). So bigger than the BMW TorsoLite while being lighter… although not all of that surface is insulated… just hips and shoulders. I wonder if this plus a GG 1/8″ ThinLight might be a good combo.

I use one of these pads combined with 36″ of blue foam wich forms the frame of my golite jam. The combination provides full length coverage and I like having the foamy I can use as a camp seat and even take it out for long lunch stops sometimes. The uber lite is good if you sleep on your back or your side, not so good on your stomach. For me this combination has been just about as good as my old Thermarest ultra light long.

I am a side sleeper — turning and tossing a lot before finally falling asleep.

I am very intrigued by the uber, but is 17″ really wide enough???

Ben,

NiteLite came in today. Definitly sturdy enough for a pack frame. It is more comfortable than a blue foamy, but it’s no inflatable, either. Let me know if you have any more questions.

Marion — this is helpful. Thanks!

Hey Ben,

I have the Uber-lite can try to anwser any questions you may have about it.

>>is 17″ really wide enough?<< It is, if you sleep on your side, which of course you do. If lying on my back my elbows rest on the ground. The main thing I don’t like about the Uber is the valve placement. It’s directly under my head when on my back. This isn’t a problem if you use a pillow. If you don’t use a pillow, like me, then it is somewhat bothersome.

Thank you, Roy.

Ben, I’ve used both the Uber-lite and the BMW Torsolite. Both very similar in quality. IMHO/IME, forget Prolite’s – no comparison to these two fine pads either in quality, or warmth. However, five Non-L/UL co-workers swear by them (4 of them use Prolite 3’s and one a 4).

Re: Valve placement – just as prev. stated, i.e. you need a pillow of sorts, or,…if you’re close to my diminutive stature(???), you can “skooch” down a bit and still keep your bottom on the top of the pad and the back of your head just misses the valve – in case you are reading on your back.

I like the Uber-lite in warmer weather since it’s a bit lighter than the BMW Torsolite. However, in my limited colder weather experience, I feel that the BMW pad might be a bit warmer than the POE pad. Why? Probably because the hourglass shape of the POE pad doesn’t provide as much inflatable area as the BMW pad, and so cold gets through that area easier. I’m a cold sleeper by ~10deg (low basal metabolism/body temp).

Also, my tight-cut (59″ max girth and sharp taper) WM Highlite mummy bag, combined with a relatively broad torso, cause my elbows/arms to not contact the uninsulated portion of the Uber-lite or the ground. However, the result is near total compression of the bag’s insulation at the elbows.

Paul: I have a ProLite 3… and my 3 season base wt. is 5.5 pounds. I like my ProLite… and at 5.5 pounds base, I still consider myself “ultralight”. I would consider the TorsoLite but I feel it’s too narrow / small. It really is amazingly tiny. I wish there were some middle ground option (in terms of size) between the TorsoLite and the ProLite. The 3/4 ProLite is bigger than I need.

I hear ya’ David. At 5.5 you’re definitely UL.

I sold my Prolite3 3/4 to a co-worker who loves it. He would only hammock camp until he bought the Prolite3. Now he does both.

My complaints about the Prolite3 are that it uses a thinner material for the shell as compared to the Torsolite and the Uber-lite (which are comparable), and the Prolite3 compressed much thinner than the other two inflatables I’ve tried. But, like I said, all of my co-workers love their Prolites.

Thanks, Paul!

I’ve looked at torso and uber, but decided both are too narrow for my likes.

Right now, I am looking more at the REI Lite-Core Short

http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=47901006&parent_category_rn=4500449&vcat=REI_SEARCH

It’s a bit heavier and packs a bit bigger than the Prolite 3. Hoever, given it’s 1.5″ thickness, it should be comparable to Prolite 4 — meaning more comfort and true 3-season use.

Thoughts?

Just a question,

how dose the torsolite and or uberlight work as frames in gossamer gear packs?

My Dads prolite 3 works fine in his mariposia But I want something lighter and still inflatable to work in a custom G6 I am considering with an outside pad pocket.

thoughts
experiences

Hey Ryan,

You’re not really going to get any ‘frame’ type support from an inflatable pad… I’d say. I use a Prolite 3 in the Mariposa… and it works great… but I use the carbon fiber stays and carry maybe 15 pounds max. The pad really serves only as back padding. In a G6… I would recommend using the roll method… inside the pack. That’s how I pack my ProLite 3 inside my MLD Prophet 30 and I love how it works. I find that with the combination of the “burrito” roll with the “filling” (all my gear)… I get a pretty nice, tight package. The roll method also helps protect the pack I’d say… since it provides a “backing” to the material… with no voids. For a tad more stiffness… you can put a little but of air in the pad… but of course that makes it take up more room. My personal thought is that for weekend loads of around 10-12 pounds starting out (6-7 pounds at the end)… you don’t really need a “frame” anyway.