Hi Dan and others

(Dan: thank you very much for such clear and objective information.)

Well, well, well. So it seems that our prediction that the width we were given to test would be too narrow has been totally justified in the market place. CD have done exactly what we said was needed, and increased the width to bring the inflated mat up to a functional width.

Why did they not let us know while we were writing the review???? A very good question. A failure to adequately communicate by CD has left us with a partially wrong review, and will do CD no good either. Sigh.

But I still say it's noisy! … Unless they have altered the fabric finish slightly as well … um …

Well, at least now we know what the *production* width is.

Cheers

Hi Eric

> narrow VERTICAL tube running down each side.
I could not agree more. Maybe V2? One can wish.

Cheers

I have used my NeoAir regular for two nights. I am mostly a side sleeper but do sleep on my back some of the time. As noted above, the NeoAir has a narrow effective width. With this pad I have only used my WM Ultralight, overfill. The bag is narrow enough that my elbows are held off the "floor". The comfort, side sleeping, is such an improvement over my Prolite3 Womens that I got the best night's sleep (backpacking) I can remember.

Roger notes that the "non-skid" finish keeps the pad in place on slippery tent floors. My experience is that the pad "waltzed" all around my Sublite floor. This in spite of the fact that the Sublite has Silnet stripes. I'll may be adding some Silnet stripes to the bottom of the NeoAir.
I have been wondering if the movement of the pad is a result of the thickness and flexibility of the pad, causing an "inchworm" type of flexure as I toss about.

The thickness of the NeoAir has required me to review pillow options. The old rolled up jacket was ok with the Prolite but I need to increase the loft of my pillow.

By the way, there was some discussion, on another thread, regarding inflatable pillows. Someone mentioned the bladder from a Starbuck's "coffee box". In Starbuck's, last Saturday, I asked to buy an empty coffee box. They didn't have a way to ring it up and just gave me the box. The bladder lid leaks a bit but I'm fooling with gasket options.

my two cents.

@Reviewers: can the summary of the review not get an 'update comment' at the bottom to reflect the changes in the production model? you don't have to change your ratings…unless you were willing to do a 'review update' with the production models. I am not sure how many casual readers would work their way through all the comments to find out about the changes…

@community: what is your feeling about the small version and its length – with the proLite/torsoLite it's no problem to park your legs on your backpack/shell layer/foam, but given the 2.5in+ height of this thing, wouldn't there by an 'abyss' for your legs? Does anyone have experience with this scenario, solutions? Would you consider the small version feasible at all?

pleasure to read as always.

Like most other folks, I initially wondered about the NeoAir's thickness causing issues for pillow height and my legs hanging off the end of a short.

But then I was reminded of the old standard practice when using inflatable air mattresses … they were most comfortable when inflated only enough to keep you barely off the ground.

Any reason to not do that with the Neoair?

I just got mine yesterday and found it most comfortable after I let out a bit of air (from fully inflated) which is encouraged in the instructions for the pad. I think this will also help with the "roll off" issue. My legs didn't feel particularly uncomfortable off the end (I bought the Small) and I bet putting my pack under my feet will be perfect.

-Dave

Johannes, when I used mine (a short) last week there was no problem with the thickness: the pillow went on top of the pad with plenty of length left over and my pack went under my legs.

I have now used mine twice (66 inch). There are some advantages to being small! I found mine to be wide enough whether on my back, stomach or sides. The noise did not bother me. The last trip out was two rather damp nights ranging from 41 degrees to 47 degrees, with no wind and some rain. My shelter was a SMD wild oasis and the bag was a 30 degree rated down bag. The 66 inch was a bit long for the shelter and the thickness made it even tighter and I had to be careful about getting the down bag against the walls of the wild oasis. (This was not a problem on an earlier warmer night as I did not have to close the shelter up).

I slept warm and comfortable (except for the condensation in my shelter). So far, I am happy with my Neoair. Only time will tell about durability.

I'm confused. The text and overall impression of the written review is that the NeoAir doesn't rate. Width seems to have been addressed: the samples I have are as wide as normal 20" wide pads. I find that the NeoAir feels wider than BA or Exped Air pads, given that I have support out to the edges, instead of the rounded drop-off of the long tubes.

The reviewers objectively test r-value, then in the text effectively poo-poo it, saying it's probably not really as warm as reported. How is that objective?

Sleeping surface: virtually all bag users would probably prefer a somewhat tackier sleeping surface so their bags don't slide off the pad.

If the main sticking point of reviewers with this pad comes down to price, consider that the BPL 1.3L Ti pot costs $89.99, whereas MSRP on the Evernew 1.3L is about $50. The weight difference is ~0.75 ounce. By comparison, I'd say the NeoAir is a significantly lighter, significantly more comfortable, huge leap different than the other closest options out there. But maybe that's just me…

Hi Brad-

I have high confidence that the pad will perform at R-2.5 as claimed. The "poo-poo"-ing is really a technical discussion as to how much the reflective layer contributes to the overall insulation.

We are working on the width issue. As Roger mentioned in an above post, it appears that Cascade Designs may have increased the width without communicating that to us. As soon as we get all the facts, we'll straighten it out.

Best Regards,

-Mike

As far as price goes, I think you guys in the US are getting a bargain. The regular neo air has just been released in Australia for $350! At todays exchange rate that's $263.68US!!!

I wonder whether one of the reviewers could provide a picture of their NeoAir with a ruler similar to excellent one given by Dan. Would be interesting to see how much narrower the pre-production sample was. I know it is described in the text, but a pic would make it clearer. It would be very dumb of CS to change the width without letting BPL know. Maybe they didn't and it is just (significant) sample variation?

Brett — yeah, I noticed that price. They must think we are real suckers over here. I would spend my hard-earned $$ in Australia if I could, but I'm not paying US$100 extra for the privilege. For some reason they don't seem to understand that we can order things from the US and save a third or more of the Australian price. I guess there are enough Aussies who still pay the inflated price to make it worthwhile. Sigh.

"For some reason they don't seem to understand that we can order things from the US and save a third or more of the Australian price. I guess there are enough Aussies who still pay the inflated price to make it worthwhile. Sigh."

As H. L. Mencken once observed: "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the American(Australian??) public". People are people, methinks.

Just took a look at the long NeoAir yesterday, here in Japan. ¥25,000 ($250.00 US). Don't think I'm going to be buying it here!

I compared the width to the MontBell U.L. Comfort pad and they were basically the same width (didn't measure it). Also ran my hand over the material and though it sounded crinkly, it didn't seem overly so. Sort of "wet, crinkly", as if the polyurethane coating softened the sound.

One competitor to the NeoAir that hasn't been mentioned yet is MEC's Kelvin Summer Pad (www.MEC.ca). The Kelvin pad (19.6oz) is 4.8oz heavier than the regular NeoAir but it has several significant advantages:

1)Price: The Kelvin pad sells for $40 Cdn (about $32 US).
2)Durability: 50D top, 75D bottom (vs. 30D for the NeoAir).
3)Thickness: 3.1" thick!
4)Quiet: Mine is silent to roll about on.

I just inflated mine and it measures a true 20.5" of usable width when inflated normally. Deflated it measures 3.5" x 9".

The disadvantages with the Kelvin pad are:
1)It weighs as much as the size large NeoAir
2)Likely has a lower R-value

LOL @ Dan Durston!

Dude, I see your tape measure is on a stack of CD cases to get it vertically even with the pad for accurate measurement. I did the same thin in the pictures I took – a stack CD cases (except mine are out of frame). HA! I guess Dans think alike. :)

By the way, interesting pad. How low have you had it temperature wise? What's it supposed to be comfortable to? That's pretty good competition considering the price!

Hi, Mike-

Thanks for your thoughtfulness in reviews and response.

Purely for the sake of discussion, I'd have to wonder what other than the reflective layer would contribute to the R-value? For example, I may have (probably did) miss this, but is the honeycomb material made out of impermeable material that would restrict airflow within the pad, or is it permeable and would allow airflow at will?

Hi All-

As several forum members have suspected, Cascade Designs has indeed increased the width of the NeoAir. The "20 inch" production pads are approximately 1 inch wider than the pre-production model they sent us for testing.

BPL's policy is not to change articles once they've been published. However, we did add an editor's note to the top of the article and revised our "overall recommendation" of the pad as we felt that the narrow width issue had been adequately addressed by the manufacturer.

Thank you everyone for your feedback.

-Mike M

Brad writes:

"…is the honeycomb material made out of impermeable material that would restrict airflow within the pad, or is it permeable and would allow airflow at will?"

I don't believe that the honeycomb fabric is completely impermeable — it doesn't have a PU coating or anything. But as there is no wind pressure inside the pad, even something like tissue paper would provide a substantial convective current barrier. FWIW, the reflective layer is likely less permeable than the other inner layers.

EMS has the small neoair on sale $95.96 plus shipping, and if your order is over $100 you get a $25 card (read restrictions). emsonline.com Just ordered one. 20% off most stuff.

REI has a 20% off full price item for members, presumably including neoair. Free shipping to stores.

Both sales end tomorrow, 5/10.

@ Dan Cunnigham

I haven't used this pad in cold conditions yet….maybe 40 F. I got it last fall so I've only had it on one 7 day trip.

When I go winter camping next I'm going to bring this pad plus my Therarest Ridgerest to get both comfort and a high R-value.

This pad is super comfortable. At over 3" of loft the comfort is unreal. If MEC reduced the thickness to 2.5" like the NeoAir and changed the fabric to a similar 30D then I expect the weight would be very comparable. The difference would then be the NeoAir costs 5x as much but likely has a higher R-value. MEC doesn't publish an R-value for the Kelvin summer pad but it's probably not very high since they call this a 'summer pad'.

The NeoAir is appealing for the 4-5 oz saved but that's not worth the radically higher cost to me. I also think having the baffles run the long way down the pad makes you feel more stable on it. I laid on a NeoAir in the store and it feels easier to roll off with the perpendicular baffles.

Oh I should mention, on those 40 F nights, I wasn't sleeping in a tent and I was still super comfy and warm with this and my 32 F sleeping bag….so whatever that's worth. My wife wasn't along for this trip and the forecast looked good so we gambled and left the tent at home.

Coincidentally, I placed my order on the day that the review was published, but without having seen it.

Based on known factors such as height, sleep preference, effects of injuries and pad weight/bulk, I knew that I'd want the NeoAir large, to use in conjunction with my Multi-Mat Expedition XL pad and large AMK Heatsheet.

In the UK, I paid the equivalent of $148:98 which I'm assured includes the stuff sack and 10 days for delivery.

I have a small Pacific Outdoors self inflating mat which was bought to use in my Packrafts, and not having slept on it, and being conditioned by sleeping on the 12mm Multi-Mat I think that I'll find the NeoAir to be quite a step up in comfort. I certainly hope so!

Callahan,
Unless something has changed, don't be expecting a stuff sack.
Yes it's pictured on the box. No, it's not part of the product. Just like the non-existent Patch Kit, CD feels customers "should have options" on what to purchase.

I contacted CD, cajoled, and got a stuff sack sent, free of charge. They did acknowledged the discrepancy between the box graphics and the delivered product so maybe you're in luck. If that's the case, hats off to CD for responsiveness.

I, too, was very surprised by BPL's review of this product as it seemed quite inconsistent with most lightweight enthusiasts desire for the most functionality at the lowest weight. I have purchased and used this product and confirmed that my old TorsoLite pads, POE inflatable pads, etc. are now obsolete.

IMHO this is the single best best product currently on the market for getting a good night's sleep. And, since how well I sleep dictates how far I can go and how much I enjoy the trip, it may very well be the most important piece of (comfort) gear I'll carry.

Key points:
+ Superior warmth to weight ratio. Mine weighs 13.5 oz.
+ Superior comfort vs all other "lightweight" options.
+ Width is indeed 20" inflated on production pads
+ Sticky fabric is a MAJOR plus for me – no more chasing
the pad around the tent at night
+ Noisy? Didn't notice it, but I'm used to some noise
from using a POE inflatable pad.
+ Price complaints? You are kidding me, right? Sticker
says "he who dies with the lightest pack wins", not
the cheapest… I love cheap gear that is light like
DriDucks raingear or Outdoor Outfitters beer can
stove, but I'll also pay a premium for high performing
gear and I'll bet many who follow this site do too.

Conclusion: If you value a good night's sleep and believe the old addage that what is under you is just as important if not more than what is over you, then I highly recommend the NeoAir Sleeping Pad. The regular size should be just fine. You might just get lucky like I did and get one that weighs less than the specified 14 oz.

I got back from 7 days in the Grand Canyon three weeks ago. I had a regular sized NeoAir under my Montbel UL SS #3 down bag inside a Alpinlite Bug bivy and a GG Spinshelter 2.

I slept great!!!

I noticed NO particular noise.
Mine got (I think it had it from the factory) a real slow leak. 2 – 3 breaths to re-inflate it at 3 AM. No big deal, and the leak was so slow I could not find it in the field.
If I got it the first night, I did not find whatever made the pin hole. I patched it with an REI patch kit, and it seems to be holding air. The ONLY negative thing I found was that if you tuched ground through the pad, the insulation went from warm to none immediately.

Conditions…
1 night on the S. Rim – bare ground and snow, with lows around 26
6 nights below the rim lows around 35 with varying winds, snow, and clear nights.

Guess which is mine ! On the last day, nearing the rim, I was asked by someone just starting down if I was on a day hike!

Edited for that speling thing