McMurdo Fast Find PLB model 210

Congrats! And I hope you never need to use it.

Steve, have you researched best insurance policy to get for emergency medical evacuation expense assistance in any use of your PLB. In not every PLB use is the rescue "free".

With Spot Messenger, they have their own insurance policy. I have not yet found the ideal policy, most insurers want to be contacted ahead of time at the time of the emergency for evacuation coverage, which is impossible most of the time in remote wilderness aerea beyond cell coverage. I get a "maybe we'll cover the incident" response from Global Travelshield, a subsiderary of American Express.

I bought one too.
We will be hiking 3 weeks in Greenland this summer 2 of them without resupply / seeing a house.
Its not in the area where they are required and where a rescue insurance is required too by Greenland autorities.

http://www.dpc.dk/sw5351.asp?usepf=true

but i had to pay a small fee to register it for my hike (604 DKK)

Nice that you guys are able to get going with these!

The Canadian distributor is still organizing the distribution here so there is no way to get one yet it seems.

Caution: You must register your PLB in the country for which it is hex-coded. I believe it is usually possible to get your unit re-coded for a service fee, but would be uneconomical for most people. So keep this in mind if you are contemplating any cross-border PLB purchase.

The two states that I hike in Colorado and Wyoming I sign up for the emergency rescue fund when I buy the fishing liscense

Rescue Insurance???

What does it cover, where can I get it, and how much does it cost?

If I buy the farm, my wife gets the life insurance money and then she will be able to afford the pool boy that she has been threatening to replace me with! :)

Seriously, I would like to know about this type of coverage.

-Tony

Steve,
The Colorado Outdoor Recreation Search and Rescue (CORSAR) fund is used to reimburse Search and Rescue teams for their expenses to find and extract you. It is not insurance. If someone does something really lame, the S&R county can elect to bill that person for all costs. Otherwise S&R applies to the CORSAR fund for reimbursement.

More of an issue with CORSAR is the use helicopters. If S&R uses a chopper to find you and move you to safety, most likely it will be considered part of the extraction. If however you have a broken leg and that same chopper takes you to a hospital, it is a medical issue, and it is explicitly not covered by CORSAR.

"The CORSAR Card Is Not Insurance
The card is not insurance and does not reimburse individuals nor does it pay for medical transport. Medical transport includes helicopter flights or ground ambulance. If aircraft are used as a search vehicle, those costs are reimbursed by the fund. If the aircraft becomes a medical transport due to a medical emergency, the medical portion of the transport is not covered. "

Tony,

I'm talking about emergency evacuation medical transportation, not health insurance.

My understanding is that in a life-and-death situation in a national park, no sweat, but in a national forest or national wilderness area, it is up to the sheriff's department Search and Rescue office to determine how to respond, and one of their options is to solicit a private helicopter service in which a billing might be made, but even then, sometimes the billing is made to your local government office, sometimes not.

The global travelshield (american express) subsidiary emergency medical evacuation insurance is cheap, about $20-$35 depending on features, but their terms for pre-authorization are cumbersome. I'm trying to find a similar policy tailored for PLB owners who use it in an area outside of cell coverage. (ie, remote wilderness areas).

Gentlemen, I am 62 year old who has had 2 knee replacements, I am also and insurance agent with 25 years of experience, I deal daily in "risk and reward" the risks I take in backpacking is going solo and going off-trail the reward I get is going solo and going off trail. These are all good points made regards unlikely contingencys, as an insurance professional there are always "grey areas" in coverage and overlappse in coverage possible, If I am every forced to push the "help button" for myself or someone else, I gurantee you I will not be worring about how to pay for the rescue. I have followed the debate over whether to use or not to use a PLB over the last several years, what boils down to is an individual choice, as an insurance agent this is a very inexpensive policy, if you doubt this statement just look at the premium you pay for 1 auto policy next time you get a renewal! Steve

Steve,
A friend was airlifted about 90 miles to a hospital.

$14,000.

I'm not going to worry about rescue, and especially so if I have a policy that will cover most of it.

sorry if its longish but the rules for Greenland for exemple :

Insurance
If you plan activities in West Greenland, in East Greenland around Ittoqqortormiit (Scoresbysund) or around Tasiilaq (Ammassalik) or in North Greenland around Qaanaaq (Thule) you are not required to take out a Search and Rescue (SAR) insurance nor an evacuation insurance. See green areas on map to the right.
Please contact DPC for detailed information on areas where SAR insurance is not required.

When a distress or emergency call from any field party is received by the Danish SAR authority in Greenland (i.e. Chief Constable for Greenland) a coordinated SAR or evacuation operation will be implemented, involving fixed-wing aircrafts, helicopters, vessels and rescue crews.

To ensure that the significant expenses defrayed from a SAR or an evacuation operation are covered the Danish State, represented by Danish Polar Center, requires that you take out an insurance as follows:

– If you plan to operate in uninhabited areas (i.e. outside towns, hamlets, or manned stations) in North or East Greenland, on sea ice, or on the Inland Ice, you must take out a SAR as well as an evacuation insurance covering all participants of your party

– A research project operating in the uninhabited areas of North or East Greenland, on sea ice, or on the Inland Ice and carried out under the auspices of a public Danish research institution (e.g. a university) normally does not need to take out a SAR nor an evacuation insurance as project members will be covered by the institution through the institution's self-insurance. However, the self-insurance generally covers only employed staff and other persons whose wages or funds are administered by the above mentioned institution

– if you are the leader of such a project you must forward to DPC an official statement with enclosed documentation from the involved institution(s) clarifying the SAR insurance conditions for all participants in the project. The statement must be submitted to DPC no later than 3 weeks prior to the departure for Greenland. Please use the standard Insurance Statement form

– participants who are not covered by the above mentioned self-insurance must take out the appropriate insurances. Send a copy signed by the insurance company to DPC

– the SAR insurance policy must cover the amount of DKK 1.000.000 with the Danish State represented by DPC as the sole beneficiary if the project or expedition takes place inside the Greenland National Park or on the Inland Ice

– the SAR insurance must cover the amount of DKK 500.000 with the Danish State represented by DPC as the sole beneficiary if the project or expedition takes place in uninhabited areas of North and East Greenland outside the Greenland National Park or outside the Inland Ice

– any activity required to have a SAR insurance must also, for each participant, take out an additional evacuation (ambulance) insurance covering the amount of DKK 280.000 with the Danish State as represented by DPC as the sole beneficiary

– if the insurance requirements apply to your planned activity an Insurance Statement Form must be completed, signed by your insurance company, and mailed to DPC no later than 3 weeks prior to the departure for Greenland

– researchers planning to operate at the Zackenberg Station in Northeast Greenland must read more in the ZERO Site Manual.

Please note that
– the responsibility for deciding to initiate a SAR operation rests solely with the Danish SAR authority
– no immediate SAR operation can be initiated to assist a party
– an initiated SAR operation may be postponed or diverted to assist another party in severe difficulties
– having established radio contact with a station in Greenland does not imply that a SAR operation will be initiated in situations where a party has asked the said station for assistance
– any SAR operation may involve substantial risks to SAR personnel, aircrafts, or vessels
– it remains the responsibility of the field party leader to secure that insurance polices remain in force during the entire fieldwork duration in Greenland.

Radios, PLBs and telephones
If you are planning activities in North or Northeast Greenland DPC recommends your equipment to include an HF-radio operable on the frequencies 3350 kHz and 4050 kHz for communication with DPC's manned stations in the region. It is important for DPC's flight coordination management to have frequent contact with users of airborne transportation.

In order to be able to transmit a distress or emergency message from remote areas all field parties operating in uninhabited areas (i.e. outside towns, hamlets, or stations) in North and East Greenland, anywhere on sea ice, or on the Inland Ice are required to bring an approved (i.e. certified) emergency radio beacon. This Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) must be capable of simultaneous transmission on 121.5 MHz / (243M Hz) and / or 406 MHz with a 121.5 MHz homing device and continuous transmission using an internal power supply for at least 24 hours at an ambient temperature down to -20°C.

Here are the two links, I'm curious, Steve, which of the two companies you'd consider going with.

https://www.globaltravelshield.com/

I posted the below inquiry to https://www.geosalliance.net/geoslogin/questions.aspx

"Each summer I hike in the High Sierras in California, this summer, 2009 I will be doing a 24 day hike on the John Muir Trail which is beyond cell coverage. I am trying to find a good emergency medical evacuation transportation policy to cover the unlikely situation of a PLB (personal locator beacon) initiated rescue situation that happens to fall outside a national park area (the trail ranges between national parks, national forests, and national wilderness areas), in which case the sherrif search and recovery might decide to enlist a private helicopter rescue service in which case a billing might occur. With a PLB initiated rescue, it is impossible to call an insurance company for pre-authorization as cell coverage is out of range and a sheriff's office has to make a decision out of contact with the plb-initiator. Global Travelshield one of your competitors only says maybe they might cover a plb-initiated emerency but the terms of their policies mandate a pre-authorized call to them. I know you cover Spot owners but do you also cover PLB owners for such an unlikely event. If the answer is yes, how do I purchase whatever you recommend? Details please. Thank you. Roleigh Martin, 5511 Malibu Drive, Edina MN 55436. ps, many people at backpackinglight.com and johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com are in the same situation I am, trying to find a good policy to buy to cover this situation. I will relay whatever information you provide to these groups of several hundred sports enthusiasts."

I'll see what I find out. and update here.

I can also send you the frustrating interchange with Global Travelshield if others want to be frustrated with "maybes".

I emailed about 6 companies including McMurdo FastFind. I should know something worth posting by Monday. I'm out hiking this weekend.

Agree with Steve Crane. I would not pay for insurance with these plb's.

I agree too on the statement that if i were to use my PLB, that would mean its serious enough that paying for the rescue cost, whatever the cost, would be the least of my worries.

My above posts were only to say in resume.

They are parts of the world, that you wont get allowed to go to without ( among other requirements )a PLB + proper insurance.

If you hike in another country than yours and want to use your plb, you may be asked to pay a small amount to declare it.
The reason i declared my plb for Greenland is not to cover myself for SAR costs but because its better for SAR teams to know about the people that may use one on their territory ( you are asked to provide info on schedule trip and number of people of your party )
And i didnt want to be more a nuisance than needed in the case i would use it.

I didnt susbscribe a SAR cost insurance as it isnt mandatory in the zone we are hiking, but i checked the price before i knew it wasnt needed, its not important if you pay it based on a schedule trip for a limited time.

So, are there any good deals that anyone has heard about on the McMurdo Fastfind 210?

I've found a couple of places that have them for $249.00 (winds up around $270 once you add the tax and shipping).

Anybody got 'em for lower?

HJ

A few had gone on sale at backcountry.com for about $240 with free shipping.

Looks like I missed those. Dang. That was a good deal.

REI has the McMurdo 210 for $249 and YIKES, the replacement battery pack is $175!!

http://www.rei.com/product/791972

What a rip off. I guess they figure they've got a captive audience.

Weird statement but maybe you'll all understand: I hope in a way PLB's don't drop too much in price. If that happens, every Tom, Dick, and Harry will have one, not just serious hikers, and there will be all kinds of frivolous activations for not truly life threatening emergencies.

HJ

I don't have a PLB, but for the McMurdo, apparently the battery typically lasts about 10 years: http://equipped.org/McMurdoNewFastFind.htm (IIRC the manufacturer conservatively rates it at 5 years, but the lifetime is really longer. You can test the battery.) Therefore your cost per year to continue owning the thing is only about $20. This seems negligible to me, especially when you compare with the $100/year subscription fee for a SPOT.

My reasons for not yet using a PLB are (a) the weight, and (b) the feeling that if I did use one, it would encourage me to take risks that I otherwise wouldn't take. If I was doing a long solo trip in a very remote area (the kind of place where you don't see another human for days at a time), I would certainly reconsider.

Good point, although I'm not sure I'd go past the manufacturer's recommendation on the battery. Batteries can test "Good" but not have any staying power once you turn on the device.

Even assuming a 5 year life span isn't a bad deal: $35.00 per year for a new battery over the recommended life span.

Still seems expensive since a whole new unit would be just another $75.00, but I guess $35.00/year isn't too much to ask. McMurdo won't probably sell a lot of spares. I'm sure that in 5 years something lighter and better will be in place, like a SPOT/PLB combo that has the strong 406 MHz primary signal, the homing beacon, and custom text messaging just like a cell phone but reliable anywhere in the world. :)

HJ

Judging from my own experience with the ACR MicroFix, you probably will never want to replace the battery, since the gizmo will be completely outmoded in 5 years–or a lot sooner!

I just bought the McMurdo FastFind–half the price, half the weight and half the bulk of the ACR Microfix I bought 2 1/2 years ago–and donated the ACR unit to a Boy Scout troop, which was glad to have it.

I suspect that in a few more years, there will be an even smaller unit that will let you talk to SAR and entertain you with music and dancing while you await rescue!

Same here. Bought an ACR AquaFix a couple of years ago. It now seems impossibly large and heavy, and I'm bound and determined to replace it with McMurdo FF 210.

HJ