Miniposa 20 pound limit

The easy answer is "swap it for a Gorilla"

For a week's backpacking in the Sierra I would carry:

the aforementioned bear cannister = 2.7 pounds
2 pounds of food per day = 14 pounds
1 liter of water = 2 pounds
Total: 18.7 pounds

Leaving you 1.3 pounds for your gear including pack.

Seems a little tight, no?

Your logic is inescapable. Or to look at it another way, let's say I get my base-weight down to 9 pounds, add a 3 pound bear canister, and that leaves 8 pounds for food,
meaning I am limited to lets say a 3 day trip or maybe a 4 day trip with this pack – in a place where I don't need to carry water. Hmmm. Going places where the canister is not
manditory could add another day.

I was looking at the MLD prophet, which has an amazing low 11 ounce weight and is rated for over 30 pounds – but it does not have the scheme where your pad is folded up into a back pad as with the gossamer gear packs (which I like a lot). I guess you would use the MLD pack in what I have heard called "burrito mode", which would seem to consume a lot of pack volume …..

Burrito mode also means there is less distance between your pack and your back, which keeps the load closer to you and it (in theory) should deflect less. A nice side benefit.

I would move up to a back with a minimalist frame, such as the Gorrila, Ohm, or Circuit. You don't want to cut a 7 day Sierra trip down to 3 just because you want to save 14 ounces on a backpack.

Thomas,
Actually for a pack like the prophet, "burrito mode" with a pad like the Thinlight (trimmed) would hardly take up any space at all in the pack. However, if you were using a Nightlight in "burrito mode" or the Torso length one as a back pad, then yes that would take up a lot of volume in the pack being that those pads are a lot thicker.

-Sid

I've done 7 days with a bear canister in a frameless pack (a ULA amp). The key difference is I only took 1.25 lbs of food a day. Went heavy on the fats, hoped I'd catch fish and lost a little body fat. At 20 lbs a frameless pack is manageable but uncomfortable. More than a pound or 2 over that and your taking the risk that the pack might break. 20 lbs and a broken frameless pack would be more than a little uncomfortable.

As others said, some minimal frame as suggested above would be preferable. I recently bought a ULA ohm to use on these types of trips and I'm looking forward to using it.

There's a BPL article which shows that pads in the backpanel or in burrito mode in a frameless pack really do very little to support the pack. They do provide a little padding which is nice.

22 lbs in the Gorilla was bliss. Another 8lbs would be doable for short periods?
If you want a tough, solid, lightweight pack for up to 30lbs you also might want to look at a ULA Ohm, or Circuit.

I've seen a lot of pictures of people with their little ulltra-light packs and they have them way over-stuffed, with too much gear crammed into the outer mesh pockets, over stuffing them as well.

I personally, like the majority of my gear inside the main pack. Then only (2) 20oz Gator-Aid water bottles in the side pockets, my T.paper, small first aid kit, and maybe my rain jacket in the large front mesh pocket.

Dual hip-belt pockets will hold: fire starter kit, headlamp, "small" knife, chap stick, handkerchief, and a couple of Balance Bars, easily.

Well, OK – it looks like the miniposa is not the thing for some of the bigger trips I have in mind (but it should be just the ticket for those short jaunts, as long as they don't involve bushwhacking. So now the question is, do I jump to the Gorilla (I can wait 6 weeks or whatever it might be while the snow is busy packing down and melting), or look at something like the Ohm. The Ohm is 21 ounces, and the Circuit jumps all the way to 36 – that tends to sell me on the Ohm.

But here is a question for those that know. Which of these packs are built solidly enough to put up with off-trail bushwacking (i.e. the southern arizona backcountry adventures I like to get involved in):

The Ohm, the Gorilla, or the MLD Prophet?

By the way, at 164 pounds and 6 foot 1 – I can't afford to skimp on the food when into heavy exertion. I have the build of a toothpick, almost no body fat, so if I starve the fun stops and I don't have the energy to do what I want to do….. and I get cold easily unless active (sigh!). I function well in the desert though.

Can you shift the water weight to your waist belt and get a lighter bear canister?

I have seen the Gorilla and it looks a little narrow for the Garcia.

Thomas,

Essentially, the Gorilla is the Miniposa with stronger fabric and an aluminum stay.

I just tested out (at home only) the Ohm and the Gorilla. I choose the Gorilla in a very very close contest for the comfier hip belt and shoulder straps. It took me 2 weeks of nightly packing and testing to get each bag dialed in, but when I did so, I took each up to 35 lbs, wore than for an hour, and both passed the test. For lighter weights they were both great. I'd give the Ohm a slight edge in carry. (The load lifters allow for more tweaking than on the Gorilla) but that was somewhat negated by the less comfy hip belt of the Ohm. I did get it to where I could wear it comfortably, but I was concerned that out on the trail, it would require frequent tweaking to keep it right. As you can see in the pictures on ULA, the wings are short, and the narrow belt dug into my stomach. With the Gorilla, it seems it will be more lock it in, go, and forgot about it. The shoulder straps on the Ohm, being narrow, also dug in a little bit. Again, while I could get them comfortable for an hour at home, on the trail for longer periods, I'd have to be shifting them more than I foresee with the Gorilla. The wicking mesh plus sitlight pad kept the Gorilla stuck in place on my back more that did just the slick dynema fabric of the Ohm. That the Ohm would slide down my back over time, necesitating a tighter hip belt adjustment, contributed to the discomfort.

The Dynema fabric on the Ohm felt stronger that the 220d nylon of the Gorilla, but not by too much, and I wasn't going to go out and drop them on the ground repeatedly to test that out. Neither of them are as durable as a heavy cordura pack though.

The Ohm could get sweaty in the desert with just the dynema against your back. The 3d wicking mesh of the Gorilla plus the egg-crate surface of the sitlight might be slightly less backsweaty in warm conditions. (also see on the user tips section of the GG website where a user punched holes in the sitlight to allow for more back ventilation)

All the above being said, I really, really, really (I mean, really) wanted to keep both the Ohm and the Gorilla, and use them on alternating trips to see which I liked most, and then sell off the loser for a moderate loss. Financial considerations did not allow me to that. I could certainly see a repurchase of the Ohm in the future though.

Seeing as how they are out of stock on the Gorilla right now, you could order the Ohm, (probably a short wait for that as well), and you could also order the Mariposa Plus, as it is the same design as the Gorilla but less strong fabric and more volume. The MLD prophet will be a wait as well, so I guess it's a wash. That's a frameless pack. There's a recent thread on the G-Spot discussing the benefits of frame vs frameless (as well, somewhere, a Ryan Jordan authored article on the same topic) and the summary of each is that approaching 25lbs, frameless start to get really uncomfortable. Of course, personal experience varies widely.

The Garcia bear can shouldn't be an issue with the Gorilla. That's the can strapped to the top of the pack in the illustrating pictures on their web site.

Edited to include links

Adding, I will most likely load up the Gorilla with ~30lbs (the max weight i can ever foresee myself carrying in it) and take it out tomorrow for a dayhike with significant elevation gain and loss, like 1500-2000 feet. I can then report back a real world experience with the gorilla and its load carry capability.

Heres the BPL article analyzing pack suspension systems:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00179.html

Here's the recent forum thread discussing stays vs no stays:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=19920

You could see if Grant would add the stays to a Miniposa too.

I enjoyed reading all that you had to say. I sit around scratching my head wondering why people want a hip-belt and stays with packs that carry 25 pound loads! 20 pounds can be carried with one strap and just switch shoulders once in a while. Hip belts and stays made sense (in a perverse way) with my old Dana Designs "astralplane" (or whatever it was called) and 60 pound loads, but it seems silly with anything we would call ultralight. OK, I should have given a soapbox warning, I am off my soapbox now.

A trusted friend originally recommended the Mariposa Plus and got me started on all this, then I got the idea of downsizing since the bulk of my trips are solo, hence the miniposa. Most (nearly all?) of my trips would be 20 pounds and under – these are the overnight and weekend things, the go sleep on top of the mountain for the heck of it kind of trip. I get tempted to return the miniposa and get the murmur for that stuff and place an order for the gorilla (I keep wanting to call it the coyote – brain warp, but there is a name for a pack for somebody). I worry that the murmur wouldn't even last a season though. The other angle (ignoring money issues) is to just keep the mini for the common and short trips (somewhat more durable than the murmur) and get a second pack like the gorilla. I'll read your articles about frame versus frameless, but I admit that I am biased towards frameless. (No doubt you picked up on that already!) Thanks!

I sit around scratching my head wondering why people want a hip-belt and stays with packs that carry 25 pound loads! 20 pounds can be carried with one strap and just switch shoulders once in a while.

Because everybody has different body shapes and types and tolerances for comfort/pain/control and whatnot. A slight frame or stays to transfer the weight to a hip-belt can make a heavier pack carry lighter than a lighter pack without those components. By that I mean less fatigue after long miles, but everybody is different. HYOH, right?

I Carried 22-23lbs with the Gorilla recently, and was glad that I had a decent hipbelt, with stay inserted in the back-panel as well. Makes the pack carry better IMHO anyway.

Don't forget too, that many will use these types of packs for Thu-Hiking, where sometimes the carry load may occasionally exceed the load recomendations. (long resupply's, or dry section water hauling)

I got a good look at William Pucket's Gorilla yesterday and was quite pleased with it. In chatting with Grant, they definitely went for a different style of pack and hit it on the head. What I do like about it, however, is that many things are removable. The stay is held in place by the small piece of velcro, and is removable. The hipbelt is removable. The compression strap system is also removable, and when engaged compresses the load nicely and serves many useful places for hanging wet socks, etc. While the gains from this weight reduction may be minimal, the pack still retains its pad sleeve; it can be used as a stripped down, frameless rucksack a la the Black Diamond climbing packs.

I just might have to get one for some off-trail hiking her in MN.

More on my blog later.

I know a guy, a licensed sawyer, who carries a cross-cut saw routinely. It's good the rest of his load is light and it's good he's got the stays and hip belt. (I think he has a Mariposa Plus.)

From what I have heard, the Gorilla is made for bushwhacking. The materials chosen are supposed to be more durable and less catchy on branches.

I think those of us who routinely carry saws, loppers, satellite phones and other tools (i.e. volunteer trail maintenance workers) would gravitate toward a pack like the Gorilla. It's nice when your pack is light enough you can add a shovel without pain.

From an e-mail from Grant, to me, received last week:

"The Gorilla is my first pass at an alpine mountaineering pack adapted to general hiking, shallow, close fit, athletic, able to take some off trail hiking etc. Not so much feature creep there as a perceived need, a lightweight pack that is also somewhat bomber and has an internal frame."

As for context, I informed Grant that I would get a look at a Gorilla this past weekend and was interested in the pack v. feature creep.

Given the description Grant gave and my initial impression of it, I think they nailed what they wanted to accomplish. Now I'll just sit back and wait for trip reports to come in.

I loaded the Gorilla with my usual gear + socks and free weights to simulate the mass and weight of food, for a carried weight of 30lbs (my baseweight is 12lbs) just about on the nose, and hiked for 75 minutes, ~4 miles, moderate ups and downs, and had no issues with discomfort. I wasn't even feeling like the pack was getting uncomfortable yet, it was just time to go to the beach. The wide and padded hipbelt carries weight incredibly well for me, so that my shoulders are carrying very little of the load. It felt stable against my back, which is the kind of thing that I couldn't test properly walking around my apt. Nothing to displease me yet.