Modified 3 season Gear List

Oh and I still need to purchase a scale to make sure I'm calculating an accurate base weight. Does anyone know where I can buy a decent scale for an affordable price?

I've been looking at an Escali kitchen scale on Amazon. $25, free shipping. .1oz increments, up to 11 lbs. There's a 35 lbs scale on sale for $21 + $8 shipping. Both get lots of positive reviews. I think $25 is about as cheap as you'll get, but check ebay too.

Sid,

Pretty solid lists.

I would skip the pack covers and use a liner. I have always hated covers, they don't work that well for me. Which is one reason I like poncho/tarps.

Glad to see you got rid of the knife. :)

Are you going to be warm enough in cold weather with the Highlite?

Also in cold weather, my REI Mistral Shoeller pants are awesome and only weigh 13.3 oz in a 30 X 32. If you haven't bought the BPL Hoody, take a close look at the sizing. I ended up with a small and it fits perfectly. It is the only size small shirt/jacket I own.

Keep an eye on the stationary stores (Staples, etc) for a sale on postal scales.

Your lists are good. I only see some minor changes but they would cost money for only incremental gains. You say some stuff you haven't yet purchased. Could you edit your post to indicate what items you haven't yet purchased? Maybe we can suggest lighter alternatives for things you haven't bought yet.

Nick,
I am a very warm sleeper, also the WM HotSac VBL Liner I've included should help boost my bags temperature rating by 5 to 7 degrees being that I am a warm sleeper. With all my clothes on and careful site selection I think I should be ok down in the 20s with that setup (If not, then I'll learn from my mistakes). I may also include a Montbell UL Down Inner Pants but I'm not sure if I will need it. I'm still trying to decide between the Montbell Ex Light Down Jacket and the UL Down Inner Jacket. Decisions, Decisions… (The long "UL Madness" post hasn't got me to make up my mind just yet but I may be leaning more towards the Ex Light at this point.)

John,
The things I have yet to buy are the Montbell UL Down Inner Jacket, the MLD Grace Solo Spectralite .60 Tarp, the MLD Prophet pack, and the BPL Beartooth Merino Wool Hoody. I'm getting ready to spend a LOT of money on these items pretty soon… The only thing that brings me comfort is knowing my wallet won't be the only thing getting a lot lighter :)

I can only speak from what I've read since I've never used a VBL but my understanding is they are quite uncomfortable in the temps you've specified.

Oh and I'm still trying to decide between the R1 Patagonia hoody and the BPL Merino Wool Hoody. I'm leaning more towards the Merino Wool because it's not as thick and I feel like it wouldn't cause me to sweat like the thicker R1 Hoody might. Which would you guys recommend?

The R1 does not belong in a 3 season list; it is best in winter and shoulder season. If it is going to get above ~45F, leave it at home. There is a recent thread on it.

ALso, VBL is not necessary in temps above ~20F, and also not necessary for trips shorter than 2-3 nights. Check out Skurka's recent article on it.

Chris,
I've actually read that a few times as well. However, I think everyone's experience can vary greatly so I want to try it for myself because if it works for me and I'm comfortable then I've got one really light sleeping system for those temperatures. If not, then I'll live and learn, I'm prepared to have some uncomfortable learning experiences. My other option was going to be the Sea To Summit Reactor Thermolite Liner which can supposedly add "up to 15 degrees of warmth" to a bag but it weighs 9 oz so I went with the VBL because it weighs half as much.

If the VBL doesn't work out then I may upgrade to the WM Ultralite or find better means of boosting my Highlite's temperature rating.

The Reactor liner is terrible. Ben2World has experienced a few miserable nights with it and has railed about it. Leave it at the store.

Matt,
The lowest temperatures I expect will be in the low 20s. Being that my bag is rated for 35 degrees, I thought it would be necessary to include the VBL in my sleeping system, no?

At those temps, the R1 Hoody is fantastically comfortable. What are the high temps you will be experiencing?

I think the VBL use is dependent on the duration that you are out. I have pushed my Marmot Hydrogen (rated to 30) down to single digits before, and frequently into the 20s while wearing light insulating clothing.

If you use a VBL LINER, then you cannot use insulating clothes and you should get a warmer bag. If you use VBL CLOTHES, then you can wear the clothes underneath your insulating clothes and you may be able to push it.

If you're going to push the temps like that, I'd get a longer pad or at least something for my feet.

A couple of thoughts:

– Joe at Z-pack will make a 9x6x5 0.60 cuben cat tarp for $130 which weighs 3.25 ounces prior to adding guylines. I'm not sure how that compares to the MLD weight wise but I'm guessing it's close and would save you some coin.

– Z-pack Blast 18 should fit this gear list and it weighs between 4 to 5 ounces and costs between $105 to $150 depending on options.

Other ideas:

– A cuben rain cover for the Blast 18 weighs 0.8 ounces.

– A cuben rain skirt weighs less than an ounce if you get the seam bonded instead of using velcro.

Matt:
Wait, why can I not use insulating clothing when I use the VBL Liner?

VBLs require a micro-climate to work correctly. The smaller climate (volume), the better they work. Using insulating garments inside a VBL necessarily expands the area and causes the humidity inside your insulating clothes to crank up, thus compromising the insulation.

Thin fleece might work, but I'd recommend nothing more than a thin base layer.

I'm glad you said that, I had not idea… I was planning on using it with my down jacket on.

IMO, VBL is only good for condensation issues. And most people do not like them (I do). You would be better off to replace the 4.5oz with more down.

Also, have you considered a quilt?

Nunatak Quantum Arc Alpinist 20F @ 20oz
Nunatak Quantum Arc Specialist 32F @ 16oz

Well, the Arc Alpinist in regular (which is what I would need) is actually 23 oz. That's 7 oz more than my WM Highlite. The lightest option for 20 degrees that I've found so far is the Golite Ultra 20. Although most reviews seem to say that it's more like a 30-35 degree quilt. I think I will just ditch the VBL and replace it with Down pants. I'll try to push that system down into the 20s. If it doesn't work I'll figure out something else for my sleep system.