Should i get a smaller pack if so which one?

I assume you stuff your sleeping bag into its stuff sack before packing it in your backpack?

If so, then I recommend that you leave out the stuff sack — and simply pack your bag directly into your backpack. This saves a lot of time and effort — plus your sleeping bag will "auto stuff" itself — compacting or expanding as needed — to fill up any unused pack space.

Ben is right, try to fill the pack height from bottom to top and use any compression straps to make the pack smaller in circumference. Be prepared to need more than one pack for different kinds of trips. Not like the old days when one external frame pack handled all my trips.

I think the Jam2 is around 50L, pretty big. A GG Murmur is a great pack for $80 at 36L. You might be able to find a ULA Amp on Gear Swap at around 36L.

I have a ULA Conduit, which is about the same size as your Jam2, and find the GG Murmur is a great pack for a small load like you pictured. Plus it weighs under 8 oz.

Jared, I did the same thing as you. Solo guy trim gear using a Jam2 and it was not nearly full even with 3-4 days of food in it. I swiched to a MLD 2009 Prophet at 11 oz (depends on extras) and think it is perfect. It has all the bells and whistles of the Jam2 but the size is spot on.

I have also used a Golite ion for 2 day trip. I like the pack but just need a few pockets for water and often used items. Here is a picture I took that compares the 3 packs. The ion is left, prophet middle and Jam2 on the right.

I am a little confused. Why don't you employ the Compactor System at the bottom and shorten the side compression straps? You will then create an effectively balanced 25L bag.

I bought the Jam2 at discount pricing which is why i have it and it was to replace my REI UL60, and should allow me to carry a bear can in the Olympics. I'll be using at least half of the compacter clips if i can get them all to clip for today. Mainly i just need some reason to justify another smaller and lighter pack (luckily i didn't buy the heavier 2009 Jam2). I have the UL60 for when i need to carry heavier loads, the Jam2 for when going light but need to carry some of the girlfriends stuff and or a bear can, and another pack would be to lighten up further for solo trips since i don't seem to need the extra space. Why carry a heavier pack than i need for the trip at hand? 21oz to 11oz would be a significant weight drop for solo trips to me. any other pack options in the 8oz to 15oz range that is still semi durable? The Murmur looks like a great option also! i like the idea of the back mesh, then i'll have somewhere to stuff my wet tarp.

I won't just let the sleeping bag float around everything, i live in washington and it rains, alot… I keep my down in it's own waterproof bag. I've made the mistake of not having it in it's own wp bag… thank god i didn't stay out another night.

Thanks

Hello,

I would try what Ben said. Pack without stuff sacks. If this does not solve the problem to your liking. I would get the Golite Ion. Its cheap, small and no frills. I have the Ion pack and I can go out for up to a week with it. My base pack weight is under 5 lbs so I cut off the hip belt. And my Ion pack comes in at 8.5 oz. Its good to have multiple packs for different types of trips.

James.

if i got an ion i'd add water bottle pockets and the mesh across the back for stuffing items like a tarp, and i don't normally keep my water inside the pack anymore either. It's much easier to fill when it's on the outside. Problem with the Ion is i don't want the mesh straps of the 2009… I'd have to find a black/grey 2008 or older medium. All i can find online in a medium for the older versions is the tempest blue.

Jared, I'm with you on keeping the bag dry, good choice. The compactor clips on the Jam… oh, never mind, it doesn't "gear enable" you to get a smaller lighter pack.

Sounds like you just want to spend some money. a 10 oz drop is significant, but I have to question if you aren't filling the Jam up in the first place your base weight is probably pretty low to begin with. I have to chuckle when someone drops 10 oz but is only carrying 10-12 pounds to beign with and then to sacrifice durability. To each his own, I guess.

Stuff sacks aren't needed with the Compactor System. Lock them up at the bottom and shorten the side compression straps to about the size of an Ion.

I'll give the compacters more of whirl for now, maybe i'll wait till golite releases their inbetween size pack next year… but I'm on the lookout for a smaller pack to save more weight and if it appears i can get away with a smaller one i'll be looking.

As for sacrificing durability… I don't really want a silnylon pack, Dyneema or something a little more robust than 30D sil is what i'm looking for. That prophet by MLD and the Ion are all the same fabric as the Jam2, Dyneema X. I can sew and add a back mesh panel and water bottle pockets to the Ion which will put the pack weight at about 11 to 12 oz. and still under $50… Is there any other small Dyneema fabric packs other than ULA, MLD and golite?

Jared:

It is critical to protect sleeping bag from rain (or river dunk). I line my pack with a 2-mil "contractor bag" — then put in the sleeping bag and everything else — except for my rain jacket and hat. Twisting the ends tightly closed, bending it down toward the ground and then cinching your pack tight, your contents will be totally protected from rain. For extra safety — in case the whole pack falls and submerges into a river — you can rubber band the ends tight.

I have hiked for hours in hard rain and my pack has fallen into a river (canoe mishap) — and not once has a single drop of water made its way in.

Jared –

For someone interested in the myog thing, I'd say why not look for an ion on sale or clearance for $30-$40 and modify it? You'll have an afternoon or two of entertainment making your mods, learn something, and will more than likely end up with a pack that will work great for your solo trips….and you won't drop $150 on a pack you may only use a couple times a season. Full disclosure: This winter I bought an ion for $30 and have started the same process myself.

Also, what is this you say about GoLite coming out with a pack "between" the ion and jam next year?

Good luck,

Matt

Hello,

Making mods to the Ion is great. But I have come to like fact there is no outside pockets to get snagged when going through some bushes or low hanging branches. I have been out in rain and after time water will get inside. My Nunatak quilt and SMD Lunar Solo go inside 4 liter silnylon drybag less than 1 oz in weight. Mose of my trips are just weekends and I put the little bit of clothing inside a 2 or 8 liter bag depending on the trip. Most of my food are already in water tight bags.

I have a 2008 Ion in avacado and my shoulder straps are the mesh type straps. The only mod I did so far was remove the hip belt. But i am thinking about adding a pocket inside for my first aid kit or small thing I need to get to in a hurry.

James

I understand the concern of keeping the sleeping bag dry. A mentioned a trash compactor bag works. Why use the itty bitty stuff sacks that come with the bag? Get a large cuben bag from someone like ZPacks or MLD and use it.

As mentioned, the compactor system would allow you to pack the bag tall and narrow, which is a good idea.

Ben: I know you have pushed the no-stuff sack packing method for sleeping bags many times, but have you ever damaged a sleeping bag doing that?

I use a Z1 with a Pertex-shelled bag.

> Ben: I know you have pushed the no-stuff sack packing method for sleeping bags many times, but have you ever damaged a sleeping bag doing that?

I'm obviously not Ben, but at his and other's suggestion I switched over last year. You need a lot more force to stuff a bag into a stuff sack than a garbage bag, so I would think it would be less likely to be damaged using Ben's (and now my) method.

Plus it's quicker and takes up less space. A win all around in my book.

The only problem I had was tearing the garbage bag. So I recently sewed up some silnylon semi dry bags, one for my clothes and one for food that are about the same size as a garbage bag. I will use these this year. Each weighs a little under 2 oz.

I haven't used a stuff sack since my first trip (when I was carrying heavy crap). I put my WM bags into the bottom of my pack so they can fluff up any extra space (inside a liner usually).

When I first started backpacking, I used separate stuff sacks for bag, pad, clothing, and misc small items — 4 different sized stuff sacks in all.

After two trips and fairly unhappy with the time and energy exerted every morning to force bag and pad into their respective stuff sacks, I read in various forums that NOT USING stuff sacks can actually save time, effort, weight and pack space! So I eagerly gave it a try — and it really was true!

Now, I line my pack with a contractor bag, then just pack everything into the one big hole — using only one small stuff sack to house the various small odds and ends type items.

As stated up above, packing your bag into your pack is a lot less violent than stuffing it into a diminutive stuff sack! The one caution: just make sure you don't pack sharp objects exposed. Of course, considering how a UL stuff sack provides no protection against puncture anyway — I'm sure most everyone is already aware of this — so most likely a complete non-issue.

"The only problem I had was tearing the garbage bag."

Nia,

Sea to Summit makes waterproof storage bags that are much tougher than any garbage bag. Mine weighs 1.9 oz and is ~40 liters; I can't remember the volume exactly, but it works perfectly for both my Ohm and my Circuit.

Tom (or any other actual users):

Have you actually submerged your STS waterproof storage bag into a pool of water to test whether it is truly 'waterproof' — to simulate a serious canoe or river crossing mishap? If not, I wonder if you can do a 5-minute bathtub test and let us know?

Actually, Ben, I haven't. But I have loaded it up, sealed it, and pushed down on it VERY hard with my hands, maintaining the pressure for about a minute. No apparent loss of pressure. That's good enough for my purposes. In practice, I worry more about getting most of the air out before I roll and secure the top. It's basically the same design as the Arctic1000 pack minus the valve. I don't canoe and I don't worry much about river crossing mishaps. If I get into river conditions where a serious mishap is a possibility, I will find a solid log crossing, wait it out, or reroute. I have used trash compactor bags for years and found them acceptable but prone to punctures and tears over the course of a trip. Duct tape works as a patch but the STS bag is by far superior under field conditions, IME. If I were to be canoeing or going on trips where major stream crossings would be encountered or it was just plain wet most of the time, I would opt for the Arctic1000 bag or a serious kayaking type bag.

Tom, in the interest of science, can I ask you to give your STS a good two or three-minute bathtub submerge — say, with a few pieces of paper towel inside?

I am not questioning at all that the bag works well for you. I am curious as to the actual waterproofness of the bag per se.

I got a small Sea-to-Summit UltraSil dry bag last spring and tried out the submersion tactic (turned it inside out and filled it with water). No leaks whatsoever, after leaving the water in it for about 10 minutes. I therefore went ahead and got one for my sleeping bag and another for extra clothes. I tested each of those and no leaks at all. I was sick and tired of fighting the plastic compactor bag liner–I'd shove something down in and it would pop right back up at me.

The older Sea-to-Summit UltraSil bags definitely did leak (see "Keeping Your Critical Gear Dry" on Jim Wood's website), but the newer ones (as of a year ago) seem to have overcome this problem. After reading that article, though, I'd never use any "dry" bag without testing it as Ben describes.

I had a "field test" of the 13L bag I use for my sleeping bag when I slipped and fell while fording last summer. There was 1/4 inch of water in the bottom of my backpack (where I carry my sleeping bag) but the sleeping bag inside the STS UltraSil bag stayed perfectly dry.

Mary:

That was exactly what I was hoping to get. I too have read about the sorry performance of STS "dry" bags two years ago. Indeed, Jason Klass had a horrible "real world" experience with them.

It's good to know that the current ones really do perform as marketed. And yes, regardless of brand, model, etc. — it's always good to test things out before relying on them out in the wilds. Thanks for the feedback.

EDIT: Mary, when I first read your post, I focused on the word "submersion". But re-reading, I realized you did not submerge the bag at all, but filled it with water instead. I think a true submersion in a pool of water — with the bag closure done up in the normal way — would be a truer test.