What frameless backpack to buy??

Would this be your first frameless pack? What pack do you carry now? Gear list or atleast high lights of your already light load?

Without answers to the above questions – Get an 08 Jam2 used and use the money you save to invest in a tarp or tarp tent for solo use. I think when going lighter the pack should be the LAST thing on your list. A frameless pack with too much weight and/or packed improperly will turn you off to frameless very quickly.

Jonathan, yes this would be my first real frameless pack, curerently I have an old MEC Brio(it is anything but lightweight). As for a gear list, I am in the initial acquisition stage, but here is the list of major items I have so far: Tent: MSR Hubba Hubba with a listed packaged weight of 4.4 pounds, Sleeping bag: MEC Merlin -3 celsius(I'm Canadian, eh)weight listed at 690 grams, haven't weighed it myself to confirm this though, Cooking/eating gear: Caldera Kitchen for Evernew 900ml-weight???, Sleeping pad: Therma-Rest Z-Lite-weight listed at 390 grams. That's really it so far, I still want,no need, a lighter pack and am looking for places to get lighter clothing within Canada so I don't have to spend a fortune on shipping and duty fees. Please weigh in on any additional items you would recommend, I am open to all suggestions, though a second lighter tent is probably out of the question for the time being as I still need to purchase a lot of smaller detail items. Oh yes and if anyone has any info. on retailers of light weight gear in Canada, (or anywhere I can get good deals as I'm kinda on a budget) please share I would be very grateful. Thanks again, Jesse

Are you splitting the tent weight with someone else? With such a heavy tent and without getting your clothing dialed in, I would upgrade the pack last. Cutting pack weight comes at the cost of comfort, unless you carry a really light load.

Jessie-

I picked up an MLD Ark earlier this year as my last major stage of gear reduction (dropping about 20 lbs overall in the process). The Ark is my first frameless pack too, replacing a Granite Gear Precipice, and I picked it for the same reasons you list: Good interior volume, light weight, durable fabrics.

You really can't go wrong with MLD gear, but if that kind of interior volume is #1 on your list, then the only other truly lightweight packs (2 lbs or less) in that size category would be the Gossamer Gear Mariposa Plus or the Granite Gear Vapor Trail. Both have many fans here at BPL.

I would finialize your list first (as much as possible). Then determine what your total weight will be (including food, water, and consumables). At this point you can really determine if a frameless or lightweight framed back would be best. From there you can determine volume.

Just about anything made my MLD is top quality.

Thanks for the replies so far everyone, some good points that I hadn't thought of have been brought up as I was hoping. Can anyone provide some idea of what clothing they would bring along for 3 season hiking for trips up to 4 or 5 nights long in the P.N.W.(or British Columbia in my case)?? I think I will buy some dri-ducks to use as rain and wind protection as the weight and price are right, I know they are fragile but I'll just have to deal with that(providing I can find an on line store that can get them in size small in some color other than yellow, otherwise I'll buy them in medium in green or khaki and swim in them). As far as food goes I plan on buying a dehydrator and mostly making my own and cooking freezer bag style, doesn't really help me determine weight right now but that is my plan. Also thinking of using chemicals to treat water to save the weight and space of a filter and getting a 2 or 3 liter bladder to store water and just using a gatorade bottle to drink from, sound reasonable?? Any good guesses as to what I can count on as a minimum weight for clothing for 2-4 night excursions as this will make up the majority of my outings.

I'd recommend a light internal frame pack rather than frameless – for your situation. Reasons:
1. A mass-market double wall tent (Hubba Hubba, Lightning, etc) weighs about 5.5 lbs with the stuff sack, guy lines and stakes. You will need the stuff sack since it's too heavy to put into the outer front pocket like a tarp (it would be way too far from your center of gravity).
2. Northern temps (BC) and budget often add up to fleece mid-layers. Fleece is a little heavier than puffy jackets, but way way cheaper – and can be worn with your pack (the straps destroy synthetic puffy insulation). Fleece doesn't compact well, and lets a frameless pack sag easier.
3. Your stage of development / style of camping mentions extra clothing, camp comfort (tent for GF), etc. You are very likely to discover that you prefer a thicker (heavier) pad, or maybe need a pillow, too. You are also likely to want a 2 drinking mugs, and 2 bowls if your GF prefers a more "civilized" experience.
4. 4-5 days of food & fuel is more than the "3 day resupply" standard many people aim for. Especially if you like hot breakfasts instead of energy bars. (Most BPL'ers only cook dinner).

In short, expect to add a few pounds to the UL gearlists you see for solo people on BPL.

The 1 lb a frame adds will be well worth the carry comfort for loads over 20 lbs. I'd get a the Granite Gear Nimbus Ozone in your situation. (Vapor Trail plus frame). http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/nimbusozone.html

ps: The Vapor Trail (and it's cousins) have much cushier shoulder straps than other frameless packs.

Jesse, welcome!

I would have to agree with John. When I read your post, I took note of two words that I don't think go together: large & frameless.

Having said that, I acknowledge that there are experienced members here that have managed to deal with this, but for me, your chances of success are reduced.

I personally love small frameless packs and I have large framed packs to use when the need arises.

You also mentioned that you are sometimes solo and sometimes not. I would recommend that you pay careful attention to the packs ability to compress smaller loads. This is critical in frameless packs as their structure depends upon them being fully compacted, whereas a framed pack is supported by the frame, so packing methods and volume changes aren't as important.

Take a look at http://www.ula-equipment.com for lighter packs that have some builtcin support and have some of the best compression features in the business, IMO.

Good luck with your search and keep usposted with your results!

MLD has a great reputation but most of their packs are for sub 25 lb loads- that will be hard with 4.4 lb tent unless you carry little water or food (we are in a drought so water loads are more important- some mountain springs are just a small mud hole). I would look at six moon designs(SMD) packs as well as ULA and Granite Gear, MLD. SMD packs have stay options and are designed for up to 35 lbs and the packs weigh less than 2 lbs.

I’d go for one of these:

ULA Ohm
Gossamer Gear Gorilla
Granite Gear Vapor Trail

They all carry different volumes and vary in weight, but all have some sort of actual support in them, which is something I think you’ll need.

Again, good responses. I will definately take a look at the internal frame packs after hearing this feedback. I should clarify though that I'm not really too interested in creature comforts myself, and that I don't want to pack "extra" clothes(just enough layers to stay comfortable on the trail and in camp, ideally no redundant clothing, well maybe an extra pair of socks). This means no extra or thicker pad, no other cookware aside from a spork, and no pillow. I suppose I was a little off when I suggested that most of my trips will be in 2-4 day duration…in hindsight I'd say that most will be overnighters to 2 nighters with trips up to 4 nights being the max.(haha, I was getting kind of ambitious in my thinking, then reality set in and I remembered that I still have to work 5 days a week except during vacation time). All in all though I have to agree that the internal frame pack is probably what I should look at, especially given that a lot of my hikes will be to alpine and sub-alpine lakes to fly fish, and I can probably count on a few more pounds of fishing gear for these trips. Realistically, I knew that my total weight would be somewhat above the U.L. average, but I still want to save as much weight as posible to allow greater comfort and longer hiking days due to less fatigue. Thanks people for giving me something more to think about, I want to make sure that I make the right choice for me, and your comments have been quite helpful.

"Also thinking of using chemicals to treat water to save the weight and space of a filter and getting a 2 or 3 liter bladder to store water and just using a gatorade bottle to drink from, sound reasonable??"

I dropped using a filter and recently went chem only (micropur). At the same time I also stopped using my hydration bladder. I now carry a few platy's and love the saved weight over the bladder, but the best thing I find them much more flexible in terms of packing/accessing/filling than the bladder. They also make an acceptable pillow. :-) Just a thought.

Chris, would that be the Platy canteen you're refering to?? Also thanks for the links Dan, I'm going to check those out right now.

Sorry, the Platypus platy bottles are what I use. Lightweight, roll up very small when not full.

I still use a hydration system, but i switched to a platy system last year. If you must constantly be sipping on water like i have to, the platy hydration system is considerably lighter than a camelback bladder. plus carrying an extra platy bladder isn't much of a penalty when you know it will be a long haul between water holes. Personally i carry 2 – 1 liter platy bladders to fill as I go and drink out of and an empty 2 liter platy bladder for any camp chores or when i know i'll have to pack the excess water between water holes. just a thought.