2-season bomb shelter?

Meaning to say: Of course most people here would regard the achievable weight savings as significant, but that the overall market for such tents possibly wouldn’t agree.

The inner can be removed from the Soulo.  I suppose it can be used that way with a polycro groundsheet or one could buy the full mesh inner that fits in the Soulo.

Yeah, but if you remove the inner, you have no bug protection left – even though you would presumably be doing this in the summer. So the mesh inner tent would be the way to go, but it weighs a pretty hefty 600g. The Hilleberg site concedes that: “While this greatly increases ventilation, the mesh inner tents weigh about the same as the corresponding standard inner tents, so there is (sic) not a significant weight savings.”

I’m imagining the Soulo built as a single-wall ‘tarptent’ with a bathtub floor and mesh entry/front sewn on. Yes, you would lose a lot of versatility (no more inner or outer only), but you’d lose a whole lot of weight, too. As an estimate, I’d say about 300g – for a total weight of 2.1 kg with stakes, bags, lines etc… or 1.7 kg. if you only take the tent itself (but as we are looking for a bombproof shelter, you wouldn’t really want to leave the stakes and lines at home). People who genuinely need the Soulo’s stability would possibly appreciate such weight savings for a summer tent, but the rest of the world would simply see a ‘heavy tent’.

The Wechsel Pathfinder has more mesh in the first place (afaik, because I don’t have a Soulo to check), which can be covered up if needed. But you obviously pay for this and other convertibility features in terms of weight… or rather, in height (because the tent’s relatively low weight in the 1,9 kg. Zero Gravity version is partly a result of low height).

I’ve found that camping in strong winds in warm climates necessitates a solid nylon inner tent for the simple reason that sand/dust/grit finds its way through anything else. Even in four season tents (Hilleberg and Ferrino) if the zippers are not perfectly seated against one other a distracting amount of sand and dust makes it way though even the smallest of openings.

Seems like a sensible answer, Chad – though it’s a pity.

If there were a tangible market niche for my idea, I’m pretty sure someone would have exploited it, by now. So it was down to a functional or an entrepreneurial reason not to do so. Seems the reason might be functional.

“Yeah, but if you remove the inner, you have no bug protection left”

Bugs don’t fare well in strong winds, either, so one could just bring along an 80 gram S2S Nano just in case.

But the point about dust & debris flying around is well taken. Depending on the terrain, that could be the biggest issue regarding strong winds.

…Although the ground hugging fly of the Soulo or Akto would likely shed the wind pretty well. Remember, the speed of wind at the ground surface is always zero.

The ground hugging bit is part of what makes the Soulo a bit too Scandinavian for the purposes I’m thinking about. Where there is strong wind and warmth, there can also be windless heat.

Taking the S2S net seems a good idea, Matt.

In all, with some polycro, you could save about 500g.

On the other hand, it presupposes purchasing the entire Soulo first – not a cheap venture. If all you’re thinking about is a tent for very strong winds in the southern Alps or the Pyrenees in the summer, that’s a fair amount of financial overkill. But it also illustrates my other suspicion: At a weight of around 1.5 (min) to 1.9 (packed) kilos , the stripped Soulo would still strike the majority of people as heavy. And if that weight is fairly close to the bottom line for anyone trying to design something new for just two seasons, I suspect very few consumers would be a) savvy enough to realise how light it was in relation to its scope, or b) as narrowly focussed as I am in asking the original question.

It’s kind of obvious so I guess there’s a reason you’ve rejected it, but most people here would be looking to use a shaped tarp for these conditions.

If you want the ultimate in wind-worthiness, the TrailStar is a proven option. Or if the footprint’s too big, something like the SoloMid XL. You can use your own choice of inner depending on conditions – it’s a flexible option.

Even if you’re not a walking pole user, a dedicated pole for single apex mid isn’t all that heavy, and would give you a bomber shelter for well under a kilo.

For the open spaces of Scotland and Scandinavia a 510 gm TrailStar, 80 gm StS bugnet and 50 gm polyester survival blanket is a very robust and reasonably livable solution @ under 700 gms, plus the weight of a pole if required. Even lighter with a SoloMid, XL at the cost of a little wind-worthiness but with a much smaller footprint.

Any reason why you wouldn’t take this route?

@geoffcaplan

One reason is floor space, as you have guessed – the TrailStar needs a lot of it, and (unlike the Scottish Highlands and much of Scandinavia) many of the places I go offer very little. My favourite regions are in the south of Europe – the Alps south of Grenoble, the Cevennes and the Pyrenees, both under and above the treeline. Sure, you can eventually find a spot for the TrailStar if you look around carefully, but…

… and this brings me to my second point, I’m a bikepacker and normally faster and less able to scan the surroundings than a hiker. Finding a place to pitch a tent is something of a separate operation, consuming extra time, often in push mode. Also because of the MTB, I’m not only looking for a very small footprint, but for a bombproof pole design (in this particular case). Since I don’t have trekking poles, I use a custom carbon pole with my SMD Lunar Solo and can, by now, just about guess the limits of it: a great item with a lot more stability than you would imagine, but not as solid as a trekking pole.

Thirdly, I don’t think even the TrailStar or any smaller equivalent can be quite as stable as something like the Soulo or my Wechsel Pathfinder (which I think will even beat a Soulo, partly due to its low height)… I just don’t believe a one-pole tent can compete with a geodesic design. Maybe I’m wrong. But essentially, what I would be looking for is a significantly lighter version of what I already have – or of the Soulo. Something to plonk down just about anywhere and in almost any conditions, knowing that you will be okay. Except that the tent I envision would be a dedicated warm-weather one.

I do acknowledge that there might be some overkill in my requirements. But I have also experienced some truly fantastic winds on, say, the summit of Mont Aiguoal (by car) or in the Alps (with a bivy). The kind of wind that would force most people with most shelters to retreat – or reroute in the first place, if they had been following the forecast. And that, in a nutshell, is what I’m fed up with: rerouting to avoid a few forecast hours of nasty wind, which I could easily spend in a tent… if the latter weren’t so UL. That’s why I bought the Pathfinder (two, in fact, one for my son or wife or anyone else who fancies coming along… great bargains on both).

Thing is that the Lunar Solo is already a pretty stable one-pole tent – and my favourite shelter, one I have used more than any other for years. But I wouldn’t trust it or any of its equivalents in the conditions I’m envisioning… certainly not with a thin carbon pole. There might be an element of ‘superstition’ involved here – but there it is, and that’s what I feel about it. I think there are conditions beyond the scope of such designs, and if there were any such risk, I would reroute… overprudently and superstitiously or not. And as I said earlier, rerouting is what I’m fed up with. I just don’t have enough days holiday not to get furious about it. Tours are too special – and often, rerouting kills the highlights you planned for them.

“Thirdly, I don’t think even the TrailStar or any smaller equivalent can be quite as stable as something like the Soulo or my Wechsel Pathfinder (which I think will even beat a Soulo, partly due to its low height)… ”

Hmmm, since you are speaking mostly about wind, it’s important to note that ANY tent which is not properly guyed out will get lifted and sent to the tent afterlife. With all things being equal, any tent you explore should have well placed tie outs. I’ve seen tons of “well designed” geodesic tents over the years, but fail by either having poorly placed tie-outs, or none whatsoever. These “freestanding” tents always get flattened by a wind gust.

As far as I’ve seen, all of the Hilleberg tents have well positioned tie outs, freestanding or otherwise.

But while I haven’t used it, I understand the Trailstar shed’s wind VERY well, and can easily be raised or lowered as needed. You just have to properly pin the tarp down.

The Pathfinder has four longer guylines and six other tie outs on the fly, plus four on the corners of the inner tent – despite the fact that it is very taut without any stakes at all.

And again, @namelessway, I concede that there’s possibly a measure of over-caution involved here. I own tarps, a Lunar Solo, an Event bivy etc…. and I use them all gladly, but there are situations when I want something more solid. I just do, and I know myself well enough to understand that I’ll avoid those situations unless I take the gear I really trust. I could probably almost train myself to think that a TrailStar would be just as capable and then weave my plans around that premise. But when it came to putting the assumption to the test, I would probably bypass the situation and modify my plans… which is what I no longer wish to do.

It’s not as if I would take a geodesic bunker to the Black Forest, the foothills of the Alps or the wooded parts of the Massif Central. I’m not paranoid. But I know what I am prone to do. There are times when I take what others regard as too many risks (skiing speeds, for instance). And there are other phenomena, like mountain weather, which I instinctively respect a lot.

Martin

I think that we’re coming from the same place.

I love my TrailStar, and as Matt Says, you shouldn’t underestimate it’s capabilities in wind – it’s truly bomber with good peg placements and a strong pole.

But yes, for terrain like the Alps, Pyrenees, Corsica etc the footprint is a pain. I’ve often had to cut my day short because I was heading into steep country, or walked deep into the dark looking for a viable spot.

And yes, it’s very restricting in that kind of area if you can only camp in sheltered sites.

But most of the commercial tents are aimed at users who are far less weight conscious that me – I’m simply not going to be packing 2-3 kilos for my shelter when I’m climbing 1-2000 meters a day. Not at my stage of life! And the ultralight US cottage shelters are mostly designed for much more clement climes.

So I’m pottering away at a MYOG project to develop a wind-worthy small-footprint shelter for 700g or less in time for next year’s campaign.

But if you’re not up for that (and it’s not a trivial undertaking) you could take a look at TrekkerTent in Scotland. He designs for Scottish/Alpine conditions and tests in the field in 60 mph storms.

He’s just released a new 4 season semi-geo design @ 1.2 kg inclusive. It will be constructed with big winds in mind. Just be aware that while people are generally happy with the products, waiting times can be loooong… Or you could use his minimalist Stealth A-frame with a couple of stout 3rd-party poles and still come in at well under 1k.

Other options would be the Stephenson’s Warmlite Climber, the TarpTent Scarp or the Hilleberg Akto – they can all take wind in the 1.5k weight range. Too heavy for me, but may work for you.

Hope something here is helpful…

The new TrekkerTent 4-season offering:

@geoffcaplan

Many thanks for the TrekkerTent info, Geoff!

I had never heard of that brand before. The Saor looks a bit like a Hilleberg Unna with a few addtional ideas and much less weight. 1.2 kilos saves about 700g compared to my Pathfinder.

I’m looking forward to your own project, but won’t be able to copy it myself. Things I am useless with include sewing machines, scissors… basically even bed sheets. When I fold the serviettes for dinner parties, someone has to redo the job.

GUY LINES:

My Tarptent Moment DW and SCARP 2 are decently stable in high winds IF I use two to four guy lines for them and stake down the fly hems. I always carry pre-made guy lines with those tents, even if I do not take the crossing poles. “Pre-made” means Line Loc tensioners and light nylon or Delrin snap hooks at the tent end.

My experience in high winds of 40 mph steady W/ 55 -60 mph gusts (according to local TV weatherman) in a wide open park near my house is that 4 guy lines is sufficient. But… I also stake out the fly hems to avoid flapping. This is crucial and is the other 1/2 of the “nailing the tent down” equation – it’s that important. Flapping can wear the fly unnecessarily and keep you awake all night. If your tent fly has no hem stake loops sew on at least 4 of them, two on each side. Use nylon grossgrain ribbon or light nylon webbing.

** If I was expecting days of high winds I would take my X-ing poles because they distribute the strain on the main pole better than just guy lines.  DISCLAIMER: My X-ing poles have been shortened to run under the fly in both tents so they do achieve more stability than the original exterior design.  The Moment DW is an easy fix, the SCARP 2 only a bit more work. I’ve posted these mods W/photos in Winter Hiking (SCARP 2) and The Tarptent Thread (Moment DW).

@danepacker – I have the extra guylines permanently attached to all my tents. If I’m carrying them anyway (which I am), I may as well make use of them as easy as possible… lest I don’t (use them).