1P dual-wall dual-vestibule freestanding tent?

Boyan,
See that you are right about the tents’ similarity, except for the third pole on the Chinook. Some added weight, but no doubt you have crunched the numbers. There was a thread that was about the third Chinook pole, but could not dig it out.

Consider how much stability is really added by the 3d pole. You would have to anchor a tent anyway for adverse weather in any season, and staking the front and rear vestibules does this. So not sure about the value of the 3d pole for the added weight. Are there other advantages gained from the 3d pole?

“Your photo of the Bibler Escalante Pinon”
I thought so but I wanted to make sure.
Now, please eplain to me , keeping in mind that I own one, why would I state that the Pinon is a fully freestanding tent including vestibules, if it isn’t ?
Do you think that I don’t know what it means or that for some reason I would be lying about it ? Why would I do that ?
BTW, it’s easier to understand the Pinon/Juniper pole configuration if you look at the photo I posted of the Hilleberg Allak. As I stated , those tents do have a very similar pole set up.

A 2 pole Chinook 1P is 2 oz heavier than a Revolution 1P.  That would probably be the vast majority of my use. It is my understanding that a  3rd pole adds weight bearing capacity for snow and also keeps the vestibules from sagging under moisture and snow loads. Big Sky lists the 3 pole configuration as a 4 season tent and the 2 pole as a 3 season.

At the moment I am suffering from a major case of analysis paralysis. They are transitioning their entire line to 20D granite gray fabrics and the only 30D fabric they have the Chinook in is red. I really wanted the heavier fabric (for more tear resistance in wind)  but red just seems a bit too intense to be stuck in for a day or two during a storm. I would have gone for yellow Chinook  in a heartbeat but now I am torn between a yellow Revolution, a red Chinook, or something in 20D.

Anyone have a good sense how much difference 20D vs 30D makes? Anyone been stuck inside a red tent for a while?

I don’t mind the red or yellow colours: they are cheerful, but a grey tent would be gloomy.

Cheers

I like gray as a tent color. But I’d choose the tent fabric and design that you want, and then worry about the color. The red looks pretty good in Section Hiker’s Chinook review:

https://sectionhiker.com/big-sky-international-chinook-1plus-tent-review/

I don’t have concerns about the 20D fabric failing from wind, especially not for the conditions you listed earlier. It doesn’t sound like you plan on using the tent for mountaineering or very heavy snow (or wherever Roger camps). If you are, then 30D is the way to go.

My order for a yellow Revolution is in. Went with the 30D fabric but since I may never use the tent in true winter conditions I might was well not spend the $100 extra on a Chinook.

Anything specified about the poles when you ordered?  The website implies that the Revolution tent comes with “ultralight aluminum poles” while the Chinook comes with 9 mm DAC aluminum poles. They sell these different poles alone on the old website

Anything specified about the poles when you ordered?  The website implies that the Revolution tent comes with “ultralight aluminum poles” while the Chinook comes with 9 mm DAC aluminum poles. They sell these different poles alone on the old website

Good point, could not specify anything.  I will email them

Franco, re:
““Your photo of the Bibler Escalante Pinon”
I thought so but I wanted to make sure.
Now, please eplain to me , keeping in mind that I own one, why would I state that the Pinon is a fully freestanding tent including vestibules, if it isn’t ?
Do you think that I don’t know what it means or that for some reason I would be lying about it ? Why would I do that ?
BTW, it’s easier to understand the Pinon/Juniper pole configuration if you look at the photo I posted of the Hilleberg Allak. As I stated , those tents do have a very similar pole set up.”

From your photo, it appears that the vestibule is supported by being staked out. Tell me what I’m missing. Agree that the Hilleberg in the 2d photo is fully freestanding.
No, do not think you are lying, but perhaps could be mistaken.

Boylan, re: analysis paralysis

I use the beefiest Gold Tip carbon shafts for MYOG dome tent poles, and they run about .247 oz per running foot, or just under 1/4 oz. Then you have to add the weight of the ferrules, end tips, and shock cord.

DAC pole tubing is much heavier, and for that reason it did not sound credible to me that the weight of the Chinook is just 2 oz heavier than the Revolution, unless the two tents are not close to identical as thought. Think that the inquiry about the weight of the pole is the way to go given your concerns.

On the fabric question, please note that all 20D and all 30D is not equal. There are many variations in the quality of fabrics, albeit they are the same denier.
Also, I’ve been guided by the experience of Roger Caffin and others to feel that fabric failure is far more likely to occur at the seams, or by punctures and/or abrasion, than by tearing or ripping due to wind and snow loads. I’ve been using a modified One Planet 15D wedge tent from AU for years, with no tearing or ripping, or punctures for that matter. It is said that PU coatings will increase the danger of tearing or ripping, but AFAIK, the Big Sky coatings are silicone (plus their ‘secret sauce’ noted in other threads, which I think is just a matter of obtaining better quality coating from the fabric manufacturer).

Have been wrestling with the question of whether Extrem Textil 20D silnylon is sufficiently strong for backpacking in any weather short of a snow dump overnight of several feet. And even in circumstances like that, it is the poles that give before the fabric, although a broken pole can poke through the fabric, as I believe Roger has posted about.

So if the choice is just between 20D or 30D of fabric used by Big Sky, don’t think that you will be losing much rip resistance from the 20D. Should you need a tent for mountain climbing in severe precip, a tent heavier than the ones you have been considering would probably be more appropriate.

As for the color, ‘beauty is in the eye of the beholder,’ so that depends on you.
So my real concern would be about the weight added by the third pole to the Chinook vs the Revolution. The only other concern is that you cannot try before you buy in a situation that is mail order, and the company is far away from where you live. Assuming their return policies are not restrictive – something else to check out – if you find the tent is not your cup of tea set up indoors and occupied while shoeless, then return it. I have done that countless times, after suffering analysis paralysis.

For Sam

Basically it is the Awanee with added vestibules(grey silnylon) and a third pole to support them .

Roger said , “I don’t mind the red or yellow colours: they are cheerful, but a grey tent would be gloomy“

I was on the Kungsleden in Swedish Lapland this summer, and it seems that Hilleberg are using red for their tents now. I came to really hate the red colour: the red stood out for miles in the open green scenery, jarring and not fitting in with nature at all.

Ok for safety in winter maybe, but otherwise pick something a bit more harmonious please. Same goes for “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” : think about other beholders too.

Rant over.

Sorry to disappoint, I went for the yellow :-).  Visible from far away, but when you are stuck inside for a day or more it is kind of nice to have a brighter color.  Would have preferred to go with the sage green, which I very much enjoy in the xMid, but they only had it in 20D.  Big Sky also agreed to ship the Revolution 1P with their thicker 9mm poles, they add 2oz on top of the ~3oz from the 30D fabric, but my goal here was to create a fully competent shoulder season shelter, not shave ounces.

“Ok for safety in winter maybe, but otherwise pick something a bit more harmonious please. Same goes for “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” : think about other beholders too.”

You are right.  Should have mentioned that I do not go where there is company; in other words, am either stealth camping, or camping in the open where other tents are not around.  It is surprisingly easy to do this if solitude rather than bucket lists are the goal.  But like Boyan, I do prefer light greens and other colors that blend in; but would sacrifice them if needed to get to the desired tent.  A 15D Sil/PU lime green (almost yellow) from S to S is one likely choice for the next tent, and would possibly risk the angst to beholders should I get caught short with company arriving (although that has yet to happen).

Coming south on the what was once a portion of the CO Trail, there is a nice little lake above timberline just before Hope pass, and there was a huge tent of maybe 15-20 young campers camped not far from the lake.  Asked them if they minded my pitching at a spot about 100 yards away.  They said OK, but after I got set up, their trip leader appeared and asked me to move because I and my two quiet shelties were disturbing their ambiance.  Pointing to another spot about another 50 yards away and beyond a small cluster or fir trees, I asked him if that would be OK.  He agreed, so with a “pop-up” tent, it was easy to make the move.  You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time.

Franco, re:

“The Bibler Escalante Pinon (came out in 1995 in two sizes , Pinon and Juniper )

Maybe there is a pole holding that vestibule flap pinned out in front of the tent, and I am just too blind to see it.  Happens often.

asked me to move because I and my two quiet shelties were disturbing their ambiance.
Unbelievable arrogance! I am boggled.
I would have suggested they move instead.

Cheers

Sam,

what puzzle me about you comments is that you seem to deliberately avoid looking at and reading the information already posted.

For example your latest comment ” maybe there is a pole holding that vestibule…”

is it really too hard for you to figure out that I posted this photo

specifically to show that pole holding up the vestibules ?

If on the other hand you did see that, why use the “maybe”

this is the fourth time in this thread that in a way or other you question the veracity of my comments, WHY ?

and why not just Google the info before you do that ?

Franco

A comment from a disinterested party: I had a lot of trouble understanding that photo. I could not see what it was meant to represent. So perhaps Sam also had a problem?

Cheers

Franco,
Guess I must have a problem, so will not pursue it.
But thanks for taking the time with the photos.
Sam

Franco,
Curiosity got the better of me, so poked around the web. See now that you are right, and the Escalante Pinon is, or was, a 2P tent with 3 long poles, making it fully free-standing, although most photos make it difficult to see that the third pole supporting the vestibules extends all the way to the ground. While it weighs over 5 lb., reviews and posts suggest that it made a good tent for snowy conditions, as the 3d pole maintained the shape of the two vestibules without any caving. And the 3-layer WPB walls worked well, at least in cold weather, with the large top vent.

At one time, the 3 layer GTX tent fabric could be purchased by the yard from the company that made the Omnipotent tent; so I still have panels cut out of it to make a 2 pole wedge tent that never got made. When the weight of tent fabrics (total for both inner and outer walls) got lower than the single wall GTX, finishing the tent did not seem worth the effort. But that wedge would not have been FULLY free-standing, so it looks like you have a pretty good tent for winter use that can withstand severe weather.

This is one instance where I regret the thread drift, although this Bibler design does give me some pause, as a double wall solo using this 3 pole design might come in at a very low weight. Something more to ponder.

I understand the photos, they prove that it’s truly freestanding and the vestibule is held open by the pole, not a stake!

Yes, and the reviews confirm that.

Thank you Sam for finding out that the reviews confirm that.

I now know that I can still tell the difference between two and three poles ( BTW, I did count them when I set the Pinon up but of course I could have been mistaking)

I would be very interested to hear any feedback on the 2P version of the Revolution.  Wife and I have a SMD Lunar Duo and it looks like this tent addresses at least one major drawback of the Lunar Duo’s design: having to open each side of the tent to insert the two ridgeline poles, exposing the inner to rain.

The Revolution 2P appears to be very close dimensionally (internal) to the Duo (which would be a deal breaker for the Mrs otherwise) so we wouldn’t have to resort to the larger footprint of a 3P.  The 3 pole Rev appears to have near vertical inner side walls which we really appreciate in the Duo.  And the older I get, the less I like fussing with trekking pole tents!  Just a few oz penalty over the Duo too.  I know the BA CS, etc are lighter, but all appear to sacrifice length, shoulder width etc…not to mention exposing the inner to rain.

Bump to new thread?

“And the older I get, the less I like fussing with trekking pole tents!” BRAVO! Am glad someone finally said this.

Franco, had you been imbibing and/or were otherwise impaired at the time?