Caldera Keg users.

"P.S. Ben- if you look at my pics the cone projects about 1 cm above the can lip. I would not call that a "Tower of Pisa"."

Mark, it's the nature of the beast perhaps, but it's still a pretty tall package overall. At least I omitted the word "leaning". :)

Ben,

Thanks for omitting the "leaning". :-)

I use basically the same setup as you for my canister stove. As for alcohol-
I liked the efficiency and stability of the cone, but, like you, not a fan of the form factor ( red plastic cups and all ). When TrailDesigns came out with the keg, I found the cone fit in the pot "close enough" for my tastes. I have a long history of knocking the pot off the pot stand, I am fairly clumsy, so the more stable cone was a nice improvement for me. Obviously you have found a good system, as have I.

Happy Trails,
-Mark

I am fairly new to the Caldera system, but have been testing two of them on recent trips. One is the Keg, the other a Snow Peak solo mug (28 oz).

For a perspective, here are both with several water containers as a comparison:

With the Snow Peak mug, I just use one of the caddies. Caddiess weigh about 1.5 oz each (top or bottom).

Some pictures the Snow Peak set up using one caddy:

Because of how the Snow Peak sits on the cone, you can see that the cone is almost twice as tall as the mug. So I use one caddy to protect it. Plus see note later in this post regarding use of caddy and mug.

You can pack the keg without the caddy, but really need a stuff sack to keep all the components in one package. This set up is good if you want to use the keg as a multi-use item, for boiling water and as a bowl.

Although the keg and the SP mug have the same capacity, the mug is wider and shorter. This makes it a lot easier to eat out of the mug. The Keg has a band at the top to help pick it up without being burned. I still have to use a glove. The handles on the mug make it easy. So for ease of use, the mug wins hands down. For packing and weight, the keg wins if you don't use the caddy at all.

Lids – I have replaced my Snow Peak lid with foil, and will do so with the Keg.

For breakfast and dinner, I usually drink coffee or some other hot beverage. Breakfast is always instant oatmeal, which requires some sort of mug bowl. Dinner is usually something in a bag, so a bowl/mug is not required to eat. For breakfast my 40+ year routine is to start with a cup of coffee. While drinking the coffee, I prepare the oat meal and eat it while enjoying my coffee. This requires a mug and a bowl, which is why the Snow Peak and caddy works well. But… the groves in the caddy collect particles that are hard to clean easily. In the desert I am not washing pots very often, because water is scarce. So I drink coffee in the mug, eat my oat meal in the caddy, then boil more water for a 2nd cup of coffee and drink the 2nd cup of coffee in the caddy, while scraping the sides to clean it. Or I may just drink some water and clean the caddy at the same time. When done, I wipe-clean both with a bandana.

My next few trips will be the Keg, without the caddy, and an attempt to use the keg as a single pot/mug. We shall see if habits can be changed :)

The Keg or SP fits perfectly in a side pocket of my GG Murmur, with a 1L platty in the other. On my Conduit, the Cones and 1L platty will not stay in the side pockets because of the angle of the pockets. They move foward while moving and eventually fall out. So with the Conduit, I use 2 1L sport bottles in the side pockets and the Cone goes into the pack. Actually with either pack, there is always ample room for either cone.

Regarding storing the cone flat in a pad or other location. These newer cones have a slot construction to assemble it. Each end is joined by sliding them together. The least little bend and it becomes very difficult to slide the two ends together. So I would hesitate to pack it flat… however, I will be trying this method on one of my trips soon. Plus, placing stove components is separate areas is not the most efficient, especially since the pad is one of the last things I pack. Plus in cold weather, you might want to stop for some soup at lunch, and you have to take several steps to get all your stove components.

I have never tipped over any stove or pot, but take care when cooking, plus I take the time to select a flat surface to cook. With the Caldera, this is not an issue. In the desert, wind is a concern when cooking. The Caldera shines at this. With my Snow Peak giga stove, I ended up buying their 2 oz windscreen, because wind was such an issue.

So overall, the Caldera is definitely a winner. For me the jury is still out for the mug versus keg, due to convenience. But in the long run, weight will probably win as it is much easier to pack the cone into the Keg. If I can learn to eat drink with just one piece of equipment, it is an extremely versatile and lightweight cook system. The Keg, Cone, Stove, Spork, Foil lid and empty fuel bottle have a total weight of 4.0 oz.

Nick,

I'm with you on the oatmeal and coffee. I have switched to using regular oatmeal, not instant. I just throw 3/4 of a cup of it in a zip-lock bag with some brown sugar and usually raisins or cranberries. When I fix breakfast I boil 2 cups of water in the keg, pour one cup in the zip-lock and set it aside to "cook" and use the rest of the water for coffee. In about 6-7 minutes my oatmeal is ready to eat. I fold the top of the zip-lock back like a cuff and use it for my bowl. So that's how I get by without a bowl. Works well for me.

-Mark

Mark,

Thanks for the tip. I will try that on my next trip. Do you package each breakfast in individual bags, or pack it a large one, then re-use a smaller one for each meal?

Wow! Turn your back for one weekend and look what happens! Thanks again for all the support and kind words. Did want to chime in and let everybody know that we are working on a new variation and should have it up and for sale before the PCT kick-off.

If you tuned into the thread on the DIY side, you will have heard me mention the "monster" band we had made to go around the body of the various cans. The primary instigator for doing that was to be able to develop a Hiney version. The secondary reason was to provide a way to "field replace" a Fosters if it gets damaged (since we have the formed ridge in the Fosters can, this band can be used on a new Fosters in place of the ridge).

So, long story short, we have been cutting cones, and doing glamor shots and making product inserts. Going forward, we will be referring to the current Caldera Keg as the Caldera Keg-F……and this one as the Caldera Keg-H.

There will be advantages to either the dash F or the dash H. With the new dash H, the cone is going to fit completely inside the can along with the fuel bottle and the stove. Since the Hiney can is stronger, it doesn't need the Caddy as much so we will be shipping it with a cup, cozy, and a sil-nylon bag. The dash F is the same system you know. In comparison, the can is lighter, it doesn't require the monster band, and since the cone goes up higher on the can, it is a little more efficient than the dash H. It will also continue to be shipped with a measuring cup (that doesn't fit in the dash H) and we will be including a monster band when it is all announced. Finally, when it is all formally announced, we will also be rolling out a third variation that will be a custom rig for one of our favorite UL outfits…..can't say more now, but the plan is to show it at the Kick Off.

Rand :-)

Just when i think i've decided on the Keg, Rand throws another choice at me! Which Keg to choose!:)

What is the capacity of the Heine can? I'm struggling to understand how Bens set-up is 2.5X smaller than the Keg. Surely a 600ml pot isn't 2.5X smaller than a beer can?

The larger beer cans are 750 ml.

Rand :-)

Thanks Rand,
Is the cozy made to fit the can or the cup?
My usual style of cooking is to pour enough water into the freezer bag to re-hydrate my meal. I've made a cozy sized for the freezer bags i use. I then drink my coffee from the pot, using the left over water.

I'm trying to figure out the best way to re-hydrate my meal without packing another container.

Mike, your absolutely right. As soon as the pot/can is supported significantly above the rim than the cone can be smaller, more compact and lighter. All good things.

I would suggest doing the same thing for other pots besides the beer cans, using either a silicone ring or tent stakes to support the pot so that the cone will be more compact.

Of course doing so makes it look a lot more like the old windscreen/pot stand combos that have been around for many years.

"one often "graduates" to canister stoves in pursuit of both. Work out the math — it's not hard."

I am a dedicated Esbit user. It works great with the Keg, and is more efficient than a canister stove at all time points according to "the math".

The OP asked "I'm happy with my Caldera Cone/Titan Kettle set-up, but i'm looking to decrease volume in the pack. Are Caldera Keg users happy with their set-up. I'm ready to go ahead and buy but thought i would ask for comments before i go ahead."

A Keg set-up is more compact than the Titan Kettle since the cone packs inside the pot. There may be more compact set-ups out there, but that's not how I interpreted the OPs question. The OP is quite welcome to ask us "what is the most compact cook system out there", and would get a different answer. Also, the majority of folks who have used the Keg are happy with it. I see no need for controversy or disharmony amongst ourselves!

Cozy is made to fit the cup…..but because it fits the cup, the Keg will go in it as well…..just a little loose. Just got the next round of glamor shots in….here's how it is going to look packed up:

I can't wait to get my hands on this set-up! I believe earlier you said it would be ready for the "PCT kick-off" – April sometime?

Woah! Sexy lid, Rand!

Rand,

Weight and anticipated MSRP?

Hi Rand,
Looks almost identical to the SILICONE 5000!
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/15535/index.html?skip_to_post=115989#115989
Well done on lightening it up.

>Thanks for the tip. I will try that on my next trip. Do you package each breakfast in individual bags, or pack it a large one, then re-use a smaller one for each meal?<

Nick,

My usual trip is one or two days so I package them individually, but I see no reason not to use a larger bag with a smaller reusable for longer trips. I'll have to try it myself.

-Mark

>As soon as the pot/can is supported significantly above the rim than the cone can be smaller, more compact and lighter. All good things.<

Nia,

I think the reason that TrailDesigns has not done this before is that the efficiency of the cone drops a fair amount when the water level in the pot is above where the top of the cone hits. And Rand notes that the Keg-H is not as efficient at the Keg-F. So yes, you will get a "smaller, more compact and lighter cone", but that will be offset by having to take more fuel. It is all a trade off.

-Mark

Thanks Mark. I'm sure there is some efficiency trade off. But I'd like to see some hard numbers on it to see what really matters and where the crossover point is.

And adding the caddy into the equation I think would take up a good portion of any extra efficiency. Looks like you've dropped that piece from your pack though.

Doing a quick google, I can't come up with any good test numbers. Does anyone have a link?

For me I've switched to a homemade stove that's lighter than the cone, packs smaller, and uses wood so efficiency is largely irrelevant.

Nia,

I've been horsing around with cones now for a couple of years including making my own that fit in the keg. I did this by wrapping fiberglass wick around the can so that roughly 3/4 of a cup of water was above the cone top when I put in 2 cups of water. My boil times were consistently in the 10 min range for 60 F water. Occasionally I could get it to boil with 16-17 ml of ethanol- isopropanol 50:50 mix, but usually it took a little more- maybe 20 ml ( sorry I don't have my notes with me ). My present Keg-F by Traildesigns, where the cone comes to the top of the water, boils 60 F water in 6:30 min. with 15 ml ethanol.

I realize one can't really figure out the efficiency based on my fuzzy memory, but it gives you some idea of the difference.

Sounds like your wood stove is an improvement for you. I got tired of soot and everything smelling of smoke so I've gone this route for a while.

-Mark

Thanks for the info Mark. My wood stove works well for me accept where it is banned. Plus I'm always looking for a better mousetrap.

I'm surprised at the slow boil times in particular. Maybe this is a bigger issue based on the narrow base, so most of the surface area is up the side of the can? Would the same differences show up on a wide short pot like the AGG-3 cup?

If it was only 1-2 ml difference than it's largely negligible. At 5ml or 33% more it's a pretty significant difference.

Nia,

Yeah, the narrow base of the beer can I think is the main problem. I haven't made a cone for my larger based pot (1.3 L Evernew Ti), but I do have a a Caldera Cone for it (first one I bought a long time ago). The larger based pot boils 2 cups 60 F water in about 4:30 min. vs the Caldera Keg at 6:30 min.

-Mark

All:

Been getting some inquiries about the new Caldera Keg versions that I promised after the PCT Kick Off. I just posted them to the Trail Designs website at:

http://traildesigns.com/products01.html

As discussed, the "Caldera Keg" is now the "Caldera Keg-F" and now includes a monster band for use with an un-formed fosters to replace the mid-can lip we machine in should you damage yours.

The Caldera Keg-H is based on a Heineken can, and the cone is sized to fit down inside the pot/can. This definitely makes it more packable…..though slightly less efficient.

Finally, the one I didn't discuss fully is the exclusive for Gossamer Gear called the Caldera Keg-GVP. Glen Van Peski has been running an "esbit only" version of the Caldera Keg-F for a while now, and Gossamer Gear asked us to productize it for them. Being esbit only, we could make the cone shorter (and lighter) so it fits completely in the can. Still getting the "buy it now" links sorted out, but we built product and are poised to ship once all the web sites start talking to each other!

Rand :-)

(here's a shot of the GVP)

I've decided to go for the Keg-H.
If i want more of the can inside the cone, i'll simply dig a little hole for the stove to sit in. :)