My 3-season gear list, advice on weight reduction.

I think you have too many clothes.

3 firestarters seems excessive.

Think if you can do without boots. (ie use trail runners, etc)

Don't forget FA/repair.

Two gallons is a lot of carrying capacity. Need that much water?

Otherwise go get 'em.

What kind of conditions is this for? Locations?

Sid, Nice sets of items: ULA, MLD, WM, Montbell stuff all looks great. I'm guessing you dont own most of these yet…because I can't imagine someone owning cuben tarp and not a scale…please consider buying a scale first.

Again this list is stocked with fantastic items, but a few things look amiss (some already pointed out). And as Chris stated it sure would help to know climate, geography, etc of your trips.

* Boots – ouch, hard to imagine needing these with an 8 lb base weight
* Your sleeping bag suggests non freezing temps, but you have leggings, mock, full-T in pack? ditch these if it wont often freeze….if it will often freeze reeval the bag
* sleeping pad – 14 oz is extreme, consider a GG thinlight or nightlight (trimmed) 3-6 oz total
* Your guess on the silver ridge stuff is low … my silver ridge (size m) pants are 13.25 oz and my LS shirt (size large) is 9.95 oz. I dont use the shirt for backpacking…consider replacing with a LS poly zip T or merino wool LS shirt. (4-6 oz)
* Knife – replace with swiss army classic 0.75 oz (but this one sounds nonnegotiable)
* compass – a smaller one 1 oz
* head lamp – solar sounds cool, but unless you are going for long trips a petzil e-lite is 1 oz or a photon freedom -0.30 oz.
* pack cover – a liner will be more effective and a bit lighter.
* Didnt see a cap – definately add a fleece cap
* Didnt see gloves – I'd add fleece gloves
* Drop one water bottle, and replace 6 liter tank with 2.5 L platy
* pair down first aid to 1 oz – duct tape, meds, antiboitic ointment, gauze pads
* replace zip light with mini bic
* drop pack towel – use bandana
* drop firesteel and firetorch light – bring a book of matches in a plastic ziplock as backup
* I dont see a bearbag system – do you need one?
* I'm thinking you can get away with a smaller pack too, MLD prophet would save 4-6 oz., but the ULA is nice.
* Replace the ID pants with Golite reeds (5 oz), consider if you need this much of a jacket too (golite virga is only 8 oz and pretty cheap).

I'm guessing you can get this list down another 2 pounds pretty easily.

Jamie

I'd leave the zippo home, they are prone to corrosion and very heavy. maybe replace with a couple of waterproof matches in a small baggie if you like the redundancy in firestarting.

the water bag sounds very large, swap for 2l platy as mentioned by others.

Thanks everyone, for the very helpful suggestions. Jamie, you especially made many helpful suggestions.

Two things I would like some input on, comparing the ULA Conduit with the MLD Exodus, would most of you go with the Exodus for the 3 oz difference?

Also, as far as rain gear goes, I tend to sweat a lot so I would much rather go with eVent, does anyone know of any lighter rain gear options made of eVent aside from the ID Thru Hiker and ID eVent pants?

And last, what are some good brands to start looking at for trail runners to replace my massive boots? I would prefer them to be waterproof.

Thanks again guys, you've been more than helpful.

Hey,

I'm new here but may I suggest the

Inov-8 Roclite 318 GTX (maybe with Debris Gaiter) @ 318 grams (link: http://www.inov-8.com/Products-Detail.asp?L=26&PG=PG1&P=5050973156 ). Or (my system) get some shoes without membrane (for example from Montrail, see reviews on this page and google) and use sealskinz (not yet tested by me but heared many good opinions about it).

Your rain suit is already very good for hard and much rain during the trip – the Berghaus Paclite Pants are lighter tho (210 g) and have a zip over the whole side so you don't have to put off your shoes. There will be no huge difference between Goretex Paclite and Event – and you can open the zipper for more ventilation.

(Zippo – use mini Big Zip instead.)

(Cut the Z-Lite to half or third.)

Hm, those sealskinz socks are very interesting, anyone have any experience with them? Could be a great way to cut weight and keep my feet dry.

I've got a never worn pair in Large that I'd love to have go to a good home. $20 shipped.

lol Hold on business man, I need to do some research on them first. I have to read some reviews.

my pairs of sealskins leaked straight after washing. I would buy goretex socks such as trekmate amphibians or rocky goretex

Heck, Brother, your base pack weight is less than mine! I say drive on!

Other than the very minor improvements already voiced by others (less clothes, lighter raingear, carry less water, less redundancy in firestarters, consider a repair kit) I really can't come up with anything.

HYOH. If you really want that big, honkin knife… all the more power to you!

But we do really need to know what conditions this list is meant for. I'm assuming it is for summer camping below the treeline, for example? (That's what my 9 pound pack weight is for.)

Sid,

You asked for input on the Conduit vs the Exodus. It is a toss up, as the Conduit has more capacity. If you really want something lighter, the GG Murmur at 36L weighs 7.5 oz and will probably hold your gear.

Your tarp and accessories weigh 10+ oz. You might consider a MLD Silnylon Poncho Tarp. With guylines and stakes would weigh about the same if you use trekking poles to set up the tarp. Add a MLD Soul Bivy Side Zip bivy at 8 oz and you don't need rain gear at all. With your heavy rain gear, I assume you are expecting rain, so this bivy will keep your down bag dry, versus just the small tarp you are looking at. Add a light weight wind shirt at < 3 oz and you should be good to go. With the poncho/tarp you don't need a pack cover at all. But for extra insurance you can get a liner for around 1 oz and then drop the stuff sacks. Use a couple Zip Lock bags for organization.

If you must have rain gear, look at DriDucks at 1/2 your weight, but not as durable.

Regarding trail runners, look at Saloman, Montrail, New Balance, etc. Also, consider non-water proof! Why do you need these? Mesh is lighter and dries quickly. I would do some research here. The water proof laminates are hot, don't really breath well, and break down over time. I only use water proof in really sandy desert to keep the sand out versus mesh shoes.

I understand you have an affinity for the Buck knife. Nothing wrong with that. oonsider a Swiss Army Classic at under 1 oz. I use the scissors more often than the blade. Scissors are great for all kinds of tasks, and even trimming you nails.

I am primarily a desert hiking, and usually don't carry that much water storage.

Ok this is NOT my final gear list as I am still in the process of modifying this gear list but with very little tweaking to my current gear list I was able to get my base weight down to under 7 lbs.

PACKING
MLD Exodus = 13.8 oz
Pack Cover = 2.4 oz
2 stuff sacks = .55 oz

SHELTER
MLD Grace Solo Spectralite .60 Tarp + stakes & poles = 10.35 oz
MLD Bug Bivy = 5.5 oz

SLEEP SYSTEM
WM Highlite = 16 oz
GG Torso pad = 3.6 oz

KITCHEN
Snowpeak Lite Max Stove = 1.9 oz
Snowpeak Canister = 3.88 oz
BPL FireLite SUL Folding Spork = .54 oz
MSR Titan Kettle = 4.2 oz

CLOTHES
Under Armour Leggings = 4 oz ?
Under Armour Mock = 4 oz ?
Extra Smartwool Socks = 2.9 oz
Montbell Ex Light Down Jacket = 5.7 oz
ID eVent Thru Hiker Jacket = 11.9 oz
ID eVent Rain Pants = 10.5 oz
HYDRATION
Aquamira = 1 oz
Two 1Liter Aquafina bottles = 2.9 oz
Platy Bottle (2+ L) = 1 oz

MISC
First Aid / Repair Kit = 2 oz
MSR Packtowl Nano = .4 oz
Petzl E+Lite = 1 oz
Toothpaste & Toothbrush = 1 oz
Silva Forecaster 610 Compass = 0.5 oz

TOTAL = 111.52 oz = 6.97 lbs

WORN / CARRIED ITEMS
Columbia Silver Ridge Convertible Pants = 13.25 oz
Columbia Silver Ridge L/S Shirt = 8.95 oz
Under Armour Heatgear Boxerjock = 3 oz ??
Buff Bandana = 1.2 oz
Firesteel = 1.8 oz
Smartwool socks = 2.9 oz
Buck Tempest Knife = 3.6 oz
Inov8 Roclite 318 GTX = 22.44 oz
Wallet/Phone/Keys = ??

TOTAL = 57.14 oz = 3.57 lbs

Anyway, for those of you who asked earlier what conditions this gear list is for, it is actually just a general 3 season gear list not tailored to any specific location just yet, but one location I will be hiking in in the near future is Colorado. I expect to get temperatures in the low 20s, maybe lower. I am planning other trips in different states this year as well. The next thing I will purchase is a scale so I can fine tune my list. Thanks you everyone for the very helpful suggestions so far. Remember this new gear list is by no means finalized, I am doing massive amounts of research right now so I expect to have another gear list done later that might bring my weight down another pound.

Without knowing your sleeping habits, you'll likely be pretty cold in the highlite under a tarp if the temps get to low 20s like you metioned. And that assumes wearing all your clothing.

Oh one thing I forgot to mention to you guys, I do not use Trekking poles, so with every shelter I use I have to add the weight of poles. I have tried using Trekking poles, and although I'll agree that they make it a bit easier, for me it just annoys me way too much not having my hands free. I'm constantly having to drop the poles because I want to touch something that interests me (and believe me, I do it a lot) so it gets pretty annoying. Anyway stay tuned for a possibly lighter gear list later on.

Well, I've discovered that I'm a very warm sleeper. Last month I did a 3 day trip in Florida with a 50 degree bag and no pad. The first and second nights the temp got down to low 40s and I was wearing nothing but my very thin nylon Columbia Ridge Rest shirt and pants. I wasn't completely warm but I slept fine. Although I did put a TON of leaves under me. I figure including my Under Armour coldgear (which works very well for me) and also a fleece beanie I would probably be fine. Especially now that I will have a pad as well. I may or may not get a 20 degree bag for my Colorado trip, I'm not sure. I think I'd like to try it first with what I have, if it doesn't work out, you live and learn.

Were you in a tent on the FL trip or under a tarp?

I don't know what part of Colorado your going to hike & how far per day but you might want to re-think trekking poles they are priceless when hiking in the mountain regions, Andrew Skurka said it saves stress on your knees by 25%, just my input!

Sid,

I would encourage you to look at Dri-Ducks raingear also. It is *very* breathable, but not terribly durable, though easily repaired with duct tape. At $15-20 for jacket AND pants, you could go through a lot of them for much less than an eVent jacket, not to mention the pants too. These are one of those rare pieces of gear that perform better than most alternatives, are cheaper (a lot cheaper), AND weigh less. My XL (if you do decide to get these, read the recent thread on sizing!) jacket is 6.2oz; the pants are 4.4oz!

I also might be able to shed a little light on the weight of the Under Armor clothing. I have the Coldgear tights and LS mock in size XL. The shirt weighs 8.7oz and the tights are 8.1oz. After having used these for a couple years I decided that the weight wasn't worth it. I was already wearing a baselayer, and for insulation these are very poor compared to carrying a pound of high loft insulation. For less weight you could carry some light insulated pants and a warmer jacket.

By the way, great start! Some of us have been working on pack weight for a couple years and still are not into that UL category yet (I'm not admitting anything here!).

-Tim

Don't bother with these, unless you're spending day after day hiking snow and slush.

Wet feet are fine. If you're moving, Inov8 shoes without Gore-Tex will dry quickly.

I agree. Mesh trail shoes work better. In cold and wet, they can be helpful. But they are thick, and your shoe size may need to be increased. They do add insulation to help keep the feet warm. Another option is VBL socks. With both of these options; they are not for everyone. Unfortunately, you have to spend the money to get them, and then experiment.

Depends on your environment. Some years back I spent all summer in the Temagami, Ontario, area running canoe trips. Canvas and wood canoes, so you always stepped out into the water, both landing and embarking. Portages could be kind of swampy/wet at times, too.

There were two schools of thought — waterproof vs dry quickly. Some folks preferred rubber boots — usually full rubber, not just rubber-bottom. Others, including me, preferred drying quickly. I used my jungle boots, because they dried quickly and I did not have to deal with the issues of feet being hot and wet all day long.

To this day, unless it is pretty cold/wet out, I prefer the dry-quickly approach.

–MV

Your list is great. Those last few ounces are the hardest to get rid of. Some ideas below.

MLD Grace Solo Spectralite .60 Tarp + stakes & poles = 10.35 oz – – – – Can you ditch the pole? And use a stick? That's what I do. Or, do you have trekking poles?

Montbell Ex Light Down Jacket = 5.7 oz – – – – NICE!

ID eVent Thru Hiker Jacket = 11.9 oz – – – – – – Dri Ducks parka is 6.6 oz. The jacket is fine and cheap, just be careful with it, you'll be fine.

ID eVent Rain Pants = 10.5 oz Get a light weight pair of highly breathable nylon pants. If it rains, they'll get wet, but dry off quick. About 9 oz is normal. THe BPL THOROUGH FAiR pants are great.

Two 1Liter Aquafina bottles = 2.9 oz – – – – Go down to only one bottle, or ditch BOTH (yes!). You have the 2 liter platy, right. I go with JUST a 2 liter platy, and NOTHING else.

Firesteel = 1.8 oz – – – – – – A book of paper matches are fine, easy to store in a tiny plastic bag.

Buck Tempest Knife = 3.6 oz – – – – – – Oh C'mon – No way! I don't care NO WAY!

Wallet/Phone/Keys = ?? – – – – – – – What for? You won't need 'em. You'll be FINE without this stuff. THe phone probably won't work. Just hide this stuff in the car. Hide the keys outside the car somewhere – Easy!

Well, I think I will take everyone's advice on shoes and go with a non waterproof shoe that will dry quickly. How about the X-talon 212? This is the lightest one inov-8 makes and is only 14.96 oz for a pair. Oh and Mike, about the knife, I know, it is irrational for me to carry it being that heavy, but I just love the darn thing, I am slowly but surely working on parting with it, but it takes time, I have a special bond with my knife :P Good call on the personal items (wallet/phone/keys). I will probably just ditch those and carry my ID with me. Also, I will give Driducks a try but here's the thing… I do a LOT of bush whacking, and I've read terrible reviews on the durability of these things. However, being that they are so cheap, I may just buy a set and try it out.
As for the firesteel, I do have a mini firesteel now that weighs only .12 oz. I like the idea of firesteel more because with matches I always feel like I'm screwed if I run out for some reason. It takes a looong time to use up a stick of firesteel.
Thanks for more useful advice guys, I'm still improvising my list more and more each day, but I'm close to getting it to be 6 lbs, maybe even a little less! I think if I can get down to under 6 lbs I'll be satisfied (for now). 5 lbs is my ultimate goal. I can get it down to 5 lbs for a summer trip but I'd like to get it down to 5 lbs for the Colorado trip with much lower temps.