Shelter use with dogs

Zach, I tie my leash around my waist when I sleep and never have a problem. Judging by all the wild critters you just described I would guess you are in Ca and poison oak from your dog is probably a larger consern. Ali

No reason to get a tent! Just get a tarp shelter that comes all the way to the ground….Or even better, tie the dog to something! If you do get a tent, better make FIDO carry it….because you won't want to.

Zack,

My trail companion Fitz is an aussie shepherd mutt around 45 lbs. In general, for most dogs, in 3 season conditions, I would say that a ground pad is much more important than some form of top insulation. Dogs have the fur working for them, and also have hotter body temperatures than we do- keeping them off the cold ground goes a long way. I carry a sit pad that doubles as his sleep pad. Fitz makes his way under my legs if he is a little cold, but in general the biggest issue is that he likes to wiggle up in between us, then stretch out and hog my space. He is by no means a dog that curls into a convenient little ball!

He also seems to like enclosed nature of the tent. At night in the woods he is very attuned and alert, probably hearing and sensing much more than we are, and being in the tent seems to give him permission to relax, tune out, and sleep. Tarps don't give him this comfort. So, I went with an SMD Lunar Duo- a great space to weight ratio for two people and a dog, vestibules to put him in if his fur is wet or full of nasty stuff, two doors so that it is easy to let him out at night if he has to go, and it has worked out really well. I haven't had issues with floor punctures, but with the Lunar Duo you have the option of the heavier floor.

James

As counter to the lightweight style of things I usually do, I've found my dog (40 lb Australian Shepherd) does much better with a fully enclosed shelter. She paces and is nervous staked out even next to me in a tarp, she knows that it isn't her territory. Staking her out while hammock camping was miserable for her. A well secured floorless shelter could work, but I've found it best if she cannot root her way out of the tent.

Even in bitter cold, she's never wanted insulation on top of her (I've tried), but she will stay on a ground pad if it is present. She is of course highly fluffy so shorter haired dogs may want something, but she seems to rapidly overheat if I place something to cover her up.

I've found it ideal to bring a bag cover (bivvy bag or simply a sewn sheet to keep dirt off) for me if the weather will be wet or muddy as my dog ends up against or on top of my sleeping bag a lot. It saves having wet spots or the necessity of cleaning the sleeping bag when I get back.

For car camping, I spread out a $9 synthetic sleeping bag on her half of the tent. She seems quite happiest with it. For backpacking, she gets a fleece or if colder a section of blue foam sleeping pad with fleece on top.

Thanks for the replies. No poison oak to worry about here–I'm in Lake Tahoe.

James–I think we are in the same boat. My dog only sleeps in a ball when she is exhausted and makes very pathetic looks when I try to move her when she is comfortable. When she gets in between us, it is anything goes and she is just a jumble of limbs sticking up in the air. It's adorable but very annoying (I just tried adding this photo to my avatar).

I was actually wondering if a Stephenson Warmlite 2R would work, as they are very long tents and she could sleep near the head with all our gear and it would be easier to keep her away from our fragile bags. But I sweat, and Mr. Stephenson doesn't like DUMB people who sweat, so maybe I'll invent some pretend disease where I never developed sweat glands and he'll give me a discount.

On a side note, my dog doesn't really ever bark, unless you get her real wound up or she hears something outside. If there is ever a bear or raccoon in our yard, she will bark for a good 10 minutes after they have already left. I hope that doesn't happen when camping.

I can't speak for the Stephenson Warmlite 2R, but the spacious interior and mesh sides of the Lunar Duo are pretty forgiving when you are forced to make room for sprawled legs and paws and even push up against the mesh a bit. At some point, no matter how big the shelter, I think Fitz would end up between us anyway! We've learned to make it work. If you are worried about the sleeping bags, a light bivy or sheet is an option (as mentioned above). To second the other post, I also sometimes bring along a small fleece blanket if I anticipate cold nights, and always brought too much insulation when I was still in the learning stages of what he could handle.

It can be tricky to anticipate how a dog will react to the wilderness at night- even dogs who are experienced daytime trail hikers. Early on, Fitz just didn't understand stopping in the woods and setting up camp- he didn't know his place or his job, and I think he was overwhelmed by all the sensory input, the wind, the darkness, etc. He rarely barks, and has never barked at night while camping, but if he did it would sure make for a long night! He's now much more accustomed to it, but it took a little time. The enclosed tent seemed to be key- he took to it immediately and seemed to understand it was his refuge. Ulimately the additional weight of a tent over a tarp results in a better night's sleep for me.

Same goes for animal encounters- dogs may react differently in the woods, and it is good to be prepared for anything. There are different regulations and personal feelings about leashing dogs, or prohibiting them altogether, but I think that is another thread altogether…

This is very interesting how some dogs suffer overload. Is it a breed thing? Or maybe just the Alfa dog? My dog us usually pretty chill and at night just crashes when I do. She actually seems more at home in the bush than at home. Could it be her wild upbringing? could it be that I am more at peace in the wild than the city? I am very curious. I would love to learn more. Ali

Ali,

Yea, very interesting questions I would like to know more about as well- I'm no canine phenomenologist, but it is fun to wonder how they experience the world. Fitz is very comfortable during long days on the trail, but night is clearly a whole different vibe for him. Maybe as he gets more experience this will change? Every trip gets easier, so maybe he'll be ready for the tarp at some point, or even just sleeping under that stars? I think that while on the trail, he knows his task and his place in the grand scheme of things. Onward to the next bend in the trail or interesting smell! In camp, he is neither back home in his territory nor on the trail. Add to that all the sensory input and mysterious darkness and he is not his usual self. Come morning, though, he is right back to normal and excited for the day.

Funny, though, when he was in between puppy and adult and discovering new behaviors, the first time he ever buried something was out in the woods. Perhaps it WAS the call of the wild.

James

I saw a person using a Black Diamond Mega Light with a dog and think that if I ever get into dog camping that is what I would use. Looks like lots of room so the dog won't get claustrophobic and can get out if they want to without damaging anything.

As far as insulation, let her cuddle. I wouldn't want to do it with a nice WM bag, but I have a cheap Sierra Designs 650 fill bag that my dog walks all over at home anyway. Dogs are supposed to cuddle for extra warmth anyway. Its like the old music group Three Dog Night. She can take you down to a one dog night at least.

Robert,

Measuring insulation in dog units seems very useful. However, I need to stay on the good side of both my human and non-human tentmates, so I might not employ your system in earshot of those in the tent possessing full command of the English language… :)

James

"Also, my dog is a cuddle ninja. When we go to bed, she lays on her bed on the floor. When I wake up later in the night, she is cuddled up on our bed and becomes a sort of dead weight"

I love this!!!!! My dog does the same thing.

Our dog is small, so feels the cold. In three season conditions I just carry a sit-pad that doubles as his sleeping mat. I also carry and old MB down inner jacket that makes a perfect sleeping bag when the front is done up. Sometimes we just take a large double quilt and give him the option of sleeping on his sitpad, or between us under the quilt if he gets cold (his choice). Someday I plan to make a 'proper' UL down bag for him…

As for shelters, he's fine in our DR at the foot of the tent, but this may not work for bigger dogs or if you are tall (I'm the tallest in the family at 5'5"). I'm sure he would be just as happy in one of the vestibules. Never had any problems with claws on the floor. When not carrying the quilt, we carry a bivy bag just in case he is too gross from rolling in something disgusting. If it was bad enough smelling, I would wash the offending area before letting him in the tent. A small towel is also handy for wet/muddy/smelly dogs.

I made a sleeping bag for our short haired dog that she
carried. It looked liked a large stuffsack with quallofill
sides and a waterproof nylon round bottom that a thin
sleep pad fit in. Tho it had a drawcord, we didn't use it
so she could get in and out and curl up easily. The insulation
was thick enough and the walls short enough that the sides
stayed up pretty well. We just left her on a cable
pegged next to us so we could keep track of her.

When we had a toddler too, I made a small netting, floored
shelter to contain both the dog and kid.

Here is our latest dog. Is is very skinny, so I may need
to make him a bag too.

http://www.eveningwindsilkens.com/winds.php

awe!

i want to take my beast out this year on a few day hikes, then when its very warm out, take him on his first overnighter, i say very warm, because my "beast" is a 15lb chihuahua/italian greyhound mix, so he gets VERY cold

i will definately be taking my tent on that trip, and will most likely let him sleep inside a fleece jacket laying on the floor of the tent

he's such a hyper/athletic little guy, and he LOVES to explore in the woods, so im sure he will enjoy himself, and though we keep him in a kennel overnight, he would enjoy sleeping next to me
and barking is not something he ever does, he's very quiet

My dog sleeps with me. I've had him in several different shelters, mostly a Tarptent Squall 2 and a Six Moon Designs Lunar Solo. The latter didn't work out–too small and not enough ventilation for the two of us. The reason I want a tent is to have a bug-free space for both of us, which a tarp can't provide (at least not without weight equal to a single-wall tent).

I believe that crate training is the key to success in keeping the dog happy in the tent. If a dog has learned to regard his crate as a place of refuge where he can happily curl up and go to sleep, he'll regard the tent as just another crate. My dog was crate trained as a puppy (best way to housebreak, IMHO), but you can easily train an older dog. Our local Humane Society provides a crate with every dog adopted (part of the adoption fee). Just use lots of treats and don't leave him in the crate for too long at a time. Good article on crate training: http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/our_pets_for_life_program/dog_behavior_tip_sheets/crate_training.html

After hiking all day, your dog will be happy to curl up and go to sleep. Keeping the dog's claws clipped short (I do it every two weeks) helps, too. Do keep him off your tent and sleeping bag. I use a piece of 1/8" Gossamer Gear Thinlight for my dog's pad.

Never go off and leave the dog in the tent, unless you want a gaping hole courtesy of an anxious dog wanting to stay close to his human!

We have a small cut down piece of sleeping pad for our dog and he stays in the tent with us at night. I know it isn't exactly UL but the weight is very nominal. In the warmer weather (late spring – early fall) I take a piece of vapor barrier and a small piece of polar fleece for him instead of the pad. I sewed the vapor barrier to the fleece. In the heat of summer he sleeps without anything underneath.

My dog is UL (he's small enough that birds of prey are a concern) so the weight is really nothing – would be a bit more for a "real" dog.

My hiking partner, Turbo, has been my constant trail companion for seven years. While she is more comfortable in a fully enclosed shelter she doesn't do to bad under the tarp. If the critters are giving us problems I always tether her to my pack which doubles as my pillow. She is a small dog (30 lbs) and since I'm a solo hiker I really don't mind the cuddle factor on those chilly mountain nights:)Turbo the Wonderdog
Notice the snap link on her collar. (I have since replaced her metal tags) I have found it a requirement to have some sort of noise maker on her while bushwhacking or I spend more time focused on where she is and not on the hike. Always carry a back-up in case the collar gets lost in the bush. NEVER let your dog pack anything you can't afford to lose. I once spent 7 hours searching for a dog pack because it had stove fuel and other important items in it.