Help us choose our lightweight 2P Tarp Tent or DW Tent; Owner feedback

I prefer the Rainbow configuration over the various long tarptents because the long tarptents require that you point the foot end to the wind for stability. At the end of the day, the less criteria I need to take into account in site selection, the easier things are. And we know that winds can change directions multiple times through the night. The Rainbow configuration is not so fussy with wind directions. It also provides much more interior space for moving around — versus having sitting-up space only at the door end with the long tarptents.

However, you should note that the Double Rainbow is only 6 inches wider than the Rainbow solo tarptent! The website states 52" wide but that's edge-to-edge with the floor down flat. Most people use "bathtub configuration" — for good reason — but this means the flat floor space is quickly reduced to just 44 inches — or a mere 4 inches wider than two standard pads!

In contrast, Six Moon Design's Lunar Duo provides a full 54" wide usable floor space — in bathtub configuration. Similar to the Rainbow, the Lunar Duo isn't fussy about particular wind directions either.

I love my Rainbow for solo use. But if sharing, I would opt for the Lunar Duo.

I would not dismiss using the Scarp in summer with the fabric inner. I have only spent two nights in the Scarp 1 but it was 23c (73f) up till around midnight and was all zipped up (testing for condensation). I was sleeping on my Exped Downmat 7 (!!!) inside a silk liner. I was still very comfortable in that. When I unzipped the doors (about 4AM) was still 19c (66f) and rather humid , had been raining on and off all night.
That got rid of a slight damp feeling inside, but the inner's fabric was dry.
BTW, I am doing some wicked things to the Scarp, let's say that it is very versatile.
Franco

I have used the Rainshadow 2 for 3 years, it is a Taj Mahal for 2 people, completely adequate for 3 grown adults (as long as one of them does not snore). It's a great tent. Little heavy for just one person, so not recommended for solo hiking. As long as your minimum use count is 2 people, it's super!

The Scarp 2 is a bit of an unknown, but just looking at the photos I would be hesitant to buy it for our uses. The end walls look a little low for a 3-4 inch inflatable mat plus sleeping bag, but it does look nice and sturdy! Anyone have first hand experience (Henry??).

We have had no problems so far with the DR in rough weather, and find it plenty wide enough (have not needed to pitch the bathtub floor along the short edge as it is well covered by the vestibule) but if you want a solid inner for winter use, the Scarp would be the pick of the bunch (obviously not if you plan on using the Allak). The rain porch on the DR is a super nice feature that I wouldn't overlook either. The Rainshadow would be the least storm worthy I suspect. YMMV.

Update on my Rainshadow 2, it has been used for 40 days in the high sierra, including 12 days of rain. It held up just fine in the rain, however, as with any tarp tent, the latest advice is to use bungee-type guyline tensioners as these will keep the pitch taught if the fabric stretches due to a rain.

I ordered these from Cabela's

2 of 11-1782 Luhr Jensen Dipsy Diver Snubber 8" FIRE

4 of 11-1782 Luhr Jensen Dipsy Diver Snubber 6" GREEN

http://tinyurl.com/ccssll

So which ones go where?

Joe, I have not had a chance to try them, I'm figuring the long ones up front and rear. I might or might not need any others. I should find out in next 2 months. I read about this idea somewhere either here at BPL or elsewhere in last 2- months.

>The Scarp 2 is a bit of an unknown, but just looking at the photos I would be hesitant to buy it for our uses. The end walls look a little low for a 3-4 inch inflatable mat plus sleeping bag

It's too dark at the moment to take photos with sleeping bags but I have posted some Scarp 2 cutaways here –>

http://www.tarptent.com/scarp2_2.html

Note that the sleeping pads shown are meant to simulate thick pads with bodies on top and that I centered the pads. If you want more head clearance you can slide down a bit. Not sure how thick your pads are but it will surprise me a bit to hear any complaints about being too close to the walls in the Scarp 2. It's noticeably roomier than the Double Rainbow, especially sitting up and moving around.

Some comparison Double Rainbow cutaways are here –>
http://www.tarptent.com/doublerainbow_2.html

-H

This should give you some idea about the room above your head. The mat is the Exped 7 fully inflated(7cmx80/2.5"x71") the bag is the 6' Ultralite, the Pump/pillow is 10cm/4" in the middle and sitting on top of puffed up bag, there is another 20cm/8" of space above that. The Nalgene are also about 20cm /8".
Franco

"In contrast, Six Moon Design's Lunar Duo provides a full 54" wide usable floor space — in bathtub configuration. Similar to the Rainbow, the Lunar Duo isn't fussy about particular wind directions either."

I agree with Ben on this. I had a Double Rainbow, but replaced it with a Lunar Duo. The space difference for two people is dramatic, and you can get a heavier duty floor if you want. That said, the Double Rainbow is a fantastic tent, and you can't go wrong.

I've also slept in a Cloudburst, and decided I prefer the Double Rainbow and Lunar Duo design as opposed to the tunnel style tent.

Benjamin Tang posted:
In contrast, Six Moon Design's Lunar Duo provides a full 54" wide usable floor space — in bathtub configuration. Similar to the Rainbow, the Lunar Duo isn't fussy about particular wind directions either.

I can attest to the SMD Lunar Solo, and therefore infer to the Duo. I have had my Solo pitched in some significant wind that came from different direction through the night. I had rocks holding my tent pegs into the desert soil, with BIG rocks holding my rocks down. The tent held up fine with 40 – 50 MPH wind sand gusts. These are well made tents with a good design that should be considered.

Another happy SMD lunar duo owner and I've had mine in pretty high winds and driven wet snow. I doubt it would have held much of a snow load but it held up fine all night and we just tapped off the snow from the inside as it built up. Not our usual '4th season' tent, but it's nice to know it can hold up when the weather surprises.
The floor space is more than adequate and we didn't feel cramped sitting inside while waiting out the weather.
I have tents from both Tarptent and Six Moons Designs and both are well made. I don't think you'd go wrong with either.

When I posted earlier, I still had in mind just the long tarp tents and the Double Rainbow. But for two people sharing — I mentioned that I favor the SMD Lunar Duo.

But I am very intrigued with the Scarp 2. No direct experience whatsoever… but for me, for 3-season use, I would go with the Lunar Duo, have myself a great shelter and save a bunch of weight. I think this aligns with OP's original intention.

But if snow loads and high winds are truly an issue — then carrying the extra weight of a more robust double-wall Scarp 2 would make sense.

Two questions for Henry or any Scarp 2 owners:

1. Is the 52" floor width measured with the floor flattened out (like the Double Rainbow) — or is it with the bathtub floor up?

2. Looking at the beautiful, double walled Scarp 2 — is it still a tarptent? At what point does a tarptent morph into a tent? :)

Re: Scarp 2/Lunar Duo, they're both shelters but beyond that there is not/should not be a direct comparison since one is SW and the other DW and one is trekking pole (or alternative) only and other arch pole(s) only.

> 1. Is the 52" floor width measured with the floor flattened out (like the Double Rainbow) — or is it with the bathtub floor up?

Floor up. The floor is seamless 62" wide: 52" (flat) with 5" bathtub walls.

> 2. Looking at the beautiful, double walled Scarp 2 — is it still a tarptent? At what point does a tarptent morph into a tent? :)

Yes, agreed. We're running into our brand name here and may need a new one for these models.

-H

Good to know, Henry, that the Scarp 2 has a 52" width in bathtub configuration.

As for new brand name — how about opening up a naming contest? :)

It is almost a coin flip between the Rainshadow 2 and the Double Rainbow. My wife and I have used a Squall 2 for years and are very happy with it. It has a similar design to the Rainshadow. Since we are happy with the room inside the Squall 2, then I would assume that the Rainshadow would be palatial. I personally like the "tall on one end" design. I think it is great to have so much room above my head, when I lie down (I get claustrophobic sometimes). That being said, the Double Rainbow has a really nice curve to it, so that unless you are very tall, you will have plenty of room above your head.

I would guess that the Rainshadow is more storm tolerant than the Rainbow. Tents fail because:

1) The stake (peg) pulls out — (user error)
2) The cord breaks — highly unlikely
3) The fabric rips — possible, but highly unlikely with these tents (these are very high quality tents)
4) A pole breaks — quite possible, especially if it is bent too much

A Rainshadow uses trekking poles for support, so it is likely that these are very strong. They are also straight poles (no curve). The Rainbow uses a single curved pole for support. Now, all that being said, the Rainbow has a great record of success. I know someone who owns one, and he has been out in some really nasty weather. The pole was waving around, making an 'S' shape, but the pole (and the tent) held. So, personally, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I also wouldn't worry too much about placing the Rainshadow into the wind properly. Condensation is unlikely, with that much room and only two people. If it is stormy, you will want to orient your tent properly, but that is not likely to happen that often. To me, the choice between the two is the convenience of the free standing Rainbow (assuming you carry poles) vs. the extra room of the Rainshadow.

The Scarp 2 is a different beast entirely. You pay a weight penalty for a double walled tent, but you get a double walled tent. If you hike a lot in a wet or humid area, it could be worth it. You also have the option to easily make it extra storm worthy. The only drawback (other than the extra weight) is that it has less room above the head, when you lie down. I seem to be the only one who really values that, though, so keep that in mind. Also, since the web site has fabulously detailed information*, you can figure out exactly how far above your head the tent will be. Grab a sheet, lie down and see if feels right to you.

* I've been meaning to comment for a while: Those cutaway views and pictures are extremely helpful. Henry has raised the bar with his web site almost as much as he has raised the bar with his tents.

Good points, Ross, although being an owner of my beloved Rainbow tarptent — I would not worry about pole breakage for most all 3-season use. There's a video on this forum of a Rainbow set high up in the Alps — flattened time and again by gale force winds — and bouncing back smartly each time.

Henry's site is chock full of great photos. You may already know this, but just in case not — another gear seller known for excellent photos is Moontrail.com.

I just got home from a night testing my MYOG Automatic Tensioners. I camped on the beach at Bodega Bay and it was clear, cool and windy when I set up my Evolution 2P with the new Porch Fly. I purposely set up with the wind from the side to give the fly and tensioners a workout. The fog rolled in about 10:30 and it was still foggy when I rolled out this morning. I took these photos this morning while the fly was still wet. The tensioners worked perfectly and the fly did not sag at all.

Evolution 2P with Porch Fly

Detail of MYOG Automatic Tensioner

Here's the tutorial on the tensioners: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=19526

As to the original question: I'd go with the Scarp2. With the crossing poles, it's more versatile.

"although being an owner of my beloved Rainbow tarptent"

Ben, I miss the days in which you pimped your "beloved" Big Agnes Seedhouse SL2….

i used the snubbers with success for almost 2 years. they last some time true, but now need replacement as they have lost much of the 'power' they once had. I also think this might be due to freezing in place overnight. Theraband latex is much more durable in this respect.

fwiw, here is a photo(s) of an easy DIY tensioners option made with 1/8 bungee. super cheap! cost is about 30¢ each. uses a clove hitch at bottom, loops thru tie out at top. done deal.

comparison: 6 in. Luhr Snubber, .45oz – $3
12" doubled over bungee, .1oz – 30¢

<"Ben, I miss the days in which you pimped your "beloved" Big Agnes Seedhouse SL2…." >

It sounds like it might be his "beloved Scarp 2" before long.
;-)

Heh heh…

Now, I wonder where's E J in all this?

Since they use an Allak in the '4th season,' I think the lunar duo would give them the best room for the money.
Just one Lunar Duo user's opinion. :-)

NICE, Michael! Very simple and effective. Where do you buy the bungee cord?