Trail Running Pack

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=19353

I'm planning longer runs, but some of the same issue will be there.

Matt,

Thanks for the info. I'm in no sense a high-mileage guy, so I'm not reaching uber-runner status like you, so I can tone down the volume some.

I'm probably only gonna do the 1-bottle thing for now. I'll upgrade to something larger if I progress that much, but for outings of about an hour, I only need 1 bottle. Wouldn't 2 full 20-oz bottles start to weigh you down on the hips anyway?

I'd rather not do a backpack either, for movement reasons.

That REI pack seems deceptively light, and some decent volume.

So, what are you leaning towards for yourself?

Joe, if you are only going for an hour you might consider learning to run without water. It takes a bit of getting used to but you will be happy you did. Much longer and you will need something but maybe try it for a few runs and see what happens. You can always drink from a creek if its too much. Good luck. Ali

I'm sure that as my endurance and ability increases, I'll be able to go longer, and without much water. However, in the early stages (before I get rid of some of this flubber), I'd rather err on the side of comfort/convenience.

Good point. You might try using Cytomax, it will really get you through and aids with recovery. Also mass quanitys of omega three will help burn fat. But dont take suplaments they dont work. Fish oil is good. The best is Barleans flax oil. They are the only company I know of that knows how to preserve the omega three after it has been squeezed and its super yumi. Try the bannana strawbery. I have no affiliation with eather of these companys. In this economy running is the cheapest sport and you will be amazed what you can get out of yourself. The first time I started running I almost dies after about two blocks now a godd 10-20 miles is a great run. Ali

In short, I don't know short of testing. I like a single or double hand bottle and a hydration vest with storage space.

The long answer is as follows.

I need to do some testing on my longer runs to see what works. The responses came up with a variety of options (don't be overwhelmed):

1. 1 or 2 Bottle lumbar pack
2. 1 or 2 bottle lumbar pack with a hand bottle
3. Single/Double hand bottle
4. Single/double hand bottle with a lumbar pack
5. Hydration vest /w hand bottle
6. Hydration vest /w hydration hose
7. hydration vest /w hydration hose and single/double hand bottle

As I stated, there will be aid at mile posts 7.6, 13.3, 17.7 and 27.4; finish is 31.6. I didn't keep track of my fluids consumption during the marathon, but I will be keeping track of fluids consumption during training runs that are over 10 miles.

I have 10 weeks until my first ultra. That gives me plenty of runs over 10 miles where hydration and sustenance could increase training quality. I just re-wrote and adjusted my training plan last night to configure my speed workouts, and mileage per week.

Back to your original question: I have used a hydration bladder a few times on longer runs and found it difficult to suck water through the hose and maintain proper air intake/outflow. I am also convinced (in theory) that using a hand bottle increases hydration – I am still worried by the rotational inertia the bottle's weight puts on a runner's arms, the related fatigue, and the physics-related problems with liquid sloshing around in a bottle. I'll probably end up carrying at least one bottle.

How I deal with the rest of my gear is questionable and may depend on weather. My basic running gear to handle all conditions involves the following:

SS or LS wicking shirt
Windshirt
fleece beanie
fleece gloves
sunglasses
wicking baseball cap
shoes and wool socks
shortie gaiters
marathon-style shorts
spandex shorts (if not used, use bodyglide)
wicking bottoms (only when temps or windchill dip below about 10F)

Knowing the temps on the SHT, it could be 35 at race start and 90 by race end – especially on the 50 or 100 mile race. Conditions will dictate what I need to carry. I like the idea of having. Short of testing both a vest and a lumbar pack, I'm not sure how to determine. I threw out GoLite's name our of trust of their brand and my lack of knowledge of any other companies who make the stuff – hence my original post stating that I know nothing.

My other option is to carry a minimal amount of gear on me and leave everything with my crew – the issue is that if I need something two miles into an 8 mile stretch between aid stations, those final 6 miles will be rough. This would mean I carry one or two hand bottles with some Gu or something in the pockets – and nothing else.

edit: @ Ali – my girlfriend just started running – 2-3 miles at a time, slowly. I'm curious where she'll get to and I hope she sticks with it. A buddy of mine likes to say that he'll never stop running because it sucks so much to start up again.

@Ali: is there a flavor of Cytomax that is similar to the yellow regular Gatorade? Are there any flavors that should be avoided?

Matt,

Check out the bottle/pack selection at Zombie Runner http://www.zombierunner.com/store/categories/bottles_and_packs/bottle_packs/

From what I can tell, these folks use and know what they sell, so you might give them a call and chat them up about your plans.

I've found two systems that work.

For going short, or for less than 1-1.5 hours between aid stations (depending on weather, etc) I use either one or two UltDirection hand bottles. Gels in pockets, layer tied around the waist.

For longer, the Nathan vests cannot be beat.

Unless you're doing overnights you should not be using more than you can fit in something like that. I've done double crossings of the Grand Canyon with it and the clothes on my back.

I see that Nathan makes really two types of vests – ones with hydration bladders and ones without. Any thoughts on which are preferred and when? I like the simplistic design of the #028 running vest.

http://www.zombierunner.com/store/brands/nathan_sports/

I'm in a slightly different situation since I'm female and tried the whole waist pack thing with no success because I have a waist which is right at the bottom of my ribs. Ouch! When I go for runs, I usually plan for having a destination or a bit of time on the commuter rail, in which case it's really nice to be able to carry more than just water. When traveling and planning for short runs I bring an Ultimate Direction handheld but it's a tight fit in the zipper pocket for the essentials and the strap loosens up too much for my tastes.

I have a 2L Nathan vest and love it. I can carry a jacket, wallet, phone, a small knitting project for the bus or train, and enough water for 20 miles. A small stuff sack of clothing on the outside bungee allows me to run into work and shower. The comfort is incredible- no bouncing or shifting and all I need to do as it empties out is tighten up the sternum strap a smidge. I think they're worth full price after trying so many other things.

I will admit that I have some kidney issues that make me less likely to go for even a short run without enough water, but even then I drain a hand bottle in 4 miles. I don't like the shut-off valve on the included Hydrapak bladder as much as a Camelbak one, but it's not enough difference to make up for the comfort. If I were really annoyed by it I'd replace it with a 2L camelbak bladder but I haven't felt the need.

I bought two of the GoLite Hydroclutches at Midwest today – one black and one black and gold – I tried them on and like the hand clasp better than the Nathan bottles they had. I'll get in contact with the folks at ZombieRunner to chat about the Nathan vests. My biggest issue with the vests is that I already have two hydration bladders and two Nalgene canteens (that I could attach hoses to) – I don't need another one.

I contacted the Zombie Runners this morning about the Nathan vests, mostly to determine the differences between a vest with and without a hydration bladder. Essentially, the pack should carry fine (or better, my guess) without the bladder. That said, I decided on a bladder because of the increased carry capacity. I'll hold onto my two bottles because of their versatility.

Also factored into my consideration is reading Skurka recent RRR article, the nausea mentioned with hip packs and the reasons for the design of the vest.

I bought a Nathan #028 vest from REI today; it has a 70 oz capacity. I used the member code and a portion of my dividend; it should arrive next week.

"a portion of my dividend"

Wish I had your dividend. My dividend and 20% will cover my costs for the Single Shot.

<– REI Visa card user. (vest used ~38% of dividend)