Topic

confusion with Ray Way


Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

Home Forums Gear Forums Make Your Own Gear confusion with Ray Way

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 33 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1217456
    shannon stoney
    Spectator

    @shannonstoney

    Hi, I am having some difficulty dealing with Ray Way, Ray Jardine’s business. I wonder if anybody else has had this experience. I am trying to buy the tarp kit without the book, as I already own the book. They are saying that they don’t have any record of me buying the book. I don’t remember where I bought it; it may have been Amazon. Why would they be concerned about this? Is this part of their worry about intellectual property? Like, maybe I borrowed the book from somebody and that’s against the rules? I don’t understand. Anybody know what’s going on here?

    #1347819
    Rick Dreher
    BPL Member

    @halfturbo

    Locale: Northernish California

    Curious, I perused the site and while they note the kit is to be used in conjunction with the book I couldn’t find any documentation that they wouldn’t sell the kit without the book.

    As you note, books get passed around and don’t dissolve with the first reading, so it’s hard to imagine the logic at work here. That said, they’re free to make up whatever rules they want at the drop of an ultralight hat, so this could be an undocumented and/or spur-of-the-moment rule.

    Have you checked out Henry Shires’ DIY tarptent plans? They might rescue you from further adventures in Jardineland. Either way, best of luck with your project.

    #1347821
    mark henley
    Member

    @flash582

    I’d be interested in buying the used or the new copy of the Tarp book only … how much do you want for it?

    #1347824
    Ken Helwig
    BPL Member

    @kennyhel77

    Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA

    I too would look into Henry Shires tarptent DIY plan.

    #1347830
    Jim Colten
    BPL Member

    @jcolten

    Locale: MN

    I also am a tarpent fan …. but some folks prefer a flat tarp’s flexibility to use a less enclosed pitch for nights you think will have fair weather.

    Henry has the MYOG tarptent instructions here.

    Thru-hiker has them here and sells tarptent kits. Thru-hiker also sells materials that could be used to make the tarp described in Jardine’s book if that is what you want to make.

    #1347858
    shannon stoney
    Spectator

    @shannonstoney

    Hi, thanks for the link to Henry Shire’s tarptent site. I like the look of those a lot. Also I like the Thru-hiker site too.

    As for whether Ray Way will sell the kit without the book, I couldn’t find anything on the site that specifically forbids this, but the only kits I could find that they offered included the book. And there are several admonishments that if it’s not on the order page, they don’t sell it.

    Maybe I will get an email from Jenny tomorrow about whether I can buy the kit separate from the book. I hope so.

    #1347876
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Warning so that this does not happen to any of you.

    I have a different problem with the two Jardine related websites. It appears, based upon the message I receive when connecting to either site, that I HAVE BEEN BANNED from his two websites.

    Based upon the indications that I have received, any computer that I have previously used to connect to either site, is now unable to connect. Is IP Address tracking taking place? Is the use of a personal firewall an issue? Mine is set to not act as a server to outside connections, but will still accept connections from remote systems. Is this the problem? The local system acting as a server can be a bad thing, since the remote system can “demand” information or the execution of code (known as a “run on demand” paradigm – Java Applets, for example, can work this way – versus a “run on request” paradigm).

    Just tried a new computer this morning and I didn’t have a problem connecting to either website. I will next install a personal firewall on this new computer and see if I can connect. Is anyone else running a personal firewall, but is still able to connect?

    If I am banned, I find it very strange, as any Posts I have made about the great Ray Jardine have either been supportive or at worst neutral, but generally supportive – never a single derogatory Post. Ray Jardine knows that I post to this website. Don’t ask. Is this the reason for the ban? He also will no longer reply to email that I have sent to his personal email address.

    I’m not loosing any sleep over this. I just want to alert others to this strange, inexplicable phenomenon and hope that it does not happen to any of you.

    #1347881
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Problem is not a personal firewall. New computer, with a different IP Address, can still connect even with personal firewall running in a most extremely secure mode of operation.

    Looks like I may have been BANNED, DEEP-SIXED, CUT-OFF, DEEMED TO BE A LEPER or an ex-KGB/now-FSB SPY out to steal top-secret trade secrets.

    May all of you fare better than I. Excuse me, I need to go dry my tears.

    #1347884
    shannon stoney
    Spectator

    @shannonstoney

    There is a problem replying to emails that Jenny sends me. You can’t just hit “reply” and mail back to her. If you do, it bounces. You have to go back to the website and go to the Contacts page and send another email. But it sounds like what is happening to you is different from that. You can’t even go to the web page?

    I just posted a very positive review of the Ray Way quilt that I just sewed. Just to let you know, Ray, if you’re reading this.

    #1347888
    John S.
    BPL Member

    @jshann

    Anybody can send them a message from their website after going through their three-tiered nonsense of repeatedly telling you they will only respond to shipment or order issues.

    #1348107
    shannon stoney
    Spectator

    @shannonstoney

    I never heard back from Jenny about the tarp kit. I guess they decided that since I bought the book from Amazon, I can’t buy the kit separately from the book. That’s ok. I can get all the stuff I need to make it from the Rain Shed. But, I wonder, why would they pass up an opportunity to sell me the kit? It seems like a poor business policy.

    #1348110
    Mike Storesund
    Member

    @mikes-1

    Having little to do with the individual other than purchasing and reading his books, based on what I have read from his books and in various posts, it does seem that Ray is somewhat a Bohemian. Meant as “an artist who has an unconventional life-style that often reflects protest against or indifference to convention.” (Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary) Some may even consider the ideas a little eccentric. This could easily carry over to business practices. But hey… it is his business and he has offered many great ideas and insights.

    #1348112
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I posted some snide comments here about Ray here a few months back when he was threatening to close his business (I suggested he was going insane from publicity–from the looks of things, this was just a temporay bout of insanity and he’s doing okay again now), and people jumped all over me for being anonymous. Well, now you know why. Ray keeps a shitlist, and once you’re on it, for whatever reason, forget about buying any of his kits. And that concerns me, because I think his kits are a great deal. I certainly don’t want to be banned myself from buying any new kits he offers.

    For all the nasty things I said about Ray then and now, I actually like the guy. The world needs fruitcakes like him to stir things up and challenge the conventional wisdom. He’s not the only fruitcake in the outdoor business, incidentally. Read through the newsletter archives at wiggys.com for another fine example of nuttiness. Even Jack Stephenson at warmlite.com can get a little crazy when he starts ranting about goretex. BTW Stephenson is right about the miracles of vapor barrier, and Wiggy is right about the superiority of continuous fiber polyester, aka polarguard, over other types of polyester (especially for sleeping bags and quilts), and Ray Jardine is right about all sorts of things, but none of these gurus is infallible.

    #1348117
    shannon stoney
    Spectator

    @shannonstoney

    I don’t expect Ray to be a guru. But I just think it’s strange that you can buy the book at Amazon, to see if you want to make the tarp kit, but then you can’t buy the tarp kit separate from the book. In effect you have to buy two books if you bought the book at Amazon ahead of time.

    The book seems to be self-published, so if they don’t want to sell the book separately from the kit, why let Amazon sell it?

    I assume that they decided to sell the tarp kit only with the book to prevent people from borrowing the book from a friend and just ordering the materials. But why would that be so terrible? And what if you wanted to make two tarps, say a one person and a two person tarp? Would you have to buy two books in that case also? I assume that if they have a record of you having bought the book once, you can order another kit without the book. But again, why sell the book on Amazon if they only want you to get it through them?

    Also, it’s not that hard to figure out what you need from the book and then get the stuff from another seller. So, you would think that if you wanted to compete in the marketplace, you would sell the kit without the book, to prevent people from buying the materials elsewhere. I am willing to pay a bit more for the kit for the convenience of having them figure what I need for me. But…I guess they don’t want my business very badly.

    Ray or Jenny, if you read this, please email me asap and tell me you want to do business with me. If not, I will go ahead and get the stuff elsewhere.

    #1348122
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I think you will find it hard to beat Ray’s prices for the tarp-tent kit, even if you have to buy it with the book, especially after factoring in shipping charges. Also, some of the parts, such as the ultra-thin lifter lines (assuming you choose to use them–i don’t since they are too hard to untie), are not widely available at the fabric stores.

    Methinks Ray’s paranoia is contagious and rubbing off on his potential customers. I suspect the real reason Ray won’t sell the tarp kit separately is not to prevent sharing of the book or other theft of his intellectual property, but rather simply because he doesn’t want to be flexible. Your name isn’t in the list of previous customers, therefore you aren’t eligible for buying the tarp-tent book alone. Case closed, no further discussion allowed. Ray’s way or the highway. Never mind that Ray’s way doesn’t take into account people who bought the book through Amazon…

    Actually, I can sympathize with Ray in this case. I once ran a business myself and I found it very stressful when customers wanted me to bend my standard procedures for whatever reason. The first few times this happened, I was happy to be helpful, but then after a while it became a real drag dealing with these “problem customers”. If you want to avoid too much stress in business, at some point you have to establish standard procedures, and to hell with customers who insist on special treatment, even when the special treatment is justified, as it appears to be in your case. Just my 2 cents worth.

    #1348125
    shannon stoney
    Spectator

    @shannonstoney

    I AM a previous customer. That’s the weird thing. I bought a two person quilt kit last week and sewed it and used it and posted a very positive review about it. I liked it so much that I then tried to order the tarp kit, but to no avail.

    Anyway, I have to go back to work in a week and have no more time for sewing, for a while. In May I will try again to order the kit and then if all else fails, maybe I’ll order it with the book and then sell the extra book, and pass the problem on to the person who buys the book but then won’t be able to buy the kit!

    #1348128
    Ryan Faulkner
    Spectator

    @ryanf

    there is always the gear swap section on BPL :-)

    #1348138
    shannon stoney
    Spectator

    @shannonstoney

    You are right, the tarp kit that Ray sells is very reasonably priced. I priced all the fabrics and webbing to make it, using the Rain Shed’s prices, and it came to about ten dollars more than Ray’s kit would be not including the book. Plus he throws in some free thread. So maybe it would make sense to go ahead and buy his kit, silly policies notwithstanding. It’s about the same amount of money either way.

    I am just worried about the fate of the extra book, though! If I sell it on the gear swap list, it’s only fair to inform the potential buyer that he or she may be banned from buying the kit sans book. And what if I sell it on Amazon?!?

    #1348145
    Mike Barney
    Member

    @eaglemb

    Locale: AZ, the Great Southwest!

    “Anonymous”, try http://www.megaproxy.com , and many others like it (google Anonymous Proxy….) You can remain anon, and the far end really can’t tell who you are.

    <xnip> Anonymous lamenting on being banned from 2 web sites.

    #1348157
    paul johnson
    Member

    @pj

    Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest

    .

    #1348161
    Anonymous
    Guest

    MikeB,

    Thanks, your megaproxy suggestion worked. Wonder if I can place an order with Ray-Way? If I did, would megaproxy be added to the FORBIDDEN list?

    #1348269
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I was surprised to find that I too am banned. The only time I can every remember posting anything online about the “RayWay” was a question about getting the best results following his quilting instructions on thru-hiker. I have bought several books from his site and always admired him. I’m dissapointed that such a busy person would waste the time seeking out people to keep them from looking at his promotional website.

    #1348304
    Anonymous
    Guest

    In a round about way that required just a bit of reading into, but not too much as I recall, Ray told me via email some time ago that he does not like people who review his gear on backpacking websites. However, if he is filtering IP addresses, you posting there should not cause you to be banned. Maybe you contacted him directly. I also contacted him via his website to tell him how sorry I was that he was shutting down his business. He had mentioned that he might entertain offers to buy his business and to contact him about this matter. I did contact him and offer to buy his business in order to keep it alive for the good of the community. I wonder if that makes me an enemy?

    #1348319
    shannon stoney
    Spectator

    @shannonstoney

    Did you get the feeling that he objected only to negative reviews or to positive reviews also, ie reviews in general?

    #1348336
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Whether negative or positive reviews, that was not explicitly mentioned. Remember, this was a conclusion that I drew from his wording, not anything he specifically stated. I could be wrong now, but I don’t think so.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 33 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

Get the Newsletter

Get our free Handbook and Receive our weekly newsletter to see what's new at Backpacking Light!

Gear Research & Discovery Tools


Loading...