How to pack a frameless pack? (ULA Conduit vs MLD Exodus)

I use an unscored (not cut into thirds) GG Torso pad unrolled in my MLD Zip (which the Exodus replaced). Its always worked really well, even with 20lbs+. IMO folding a pad this thick against the back, inside the pack would push all the weight too far out off your back, but you could experiment.

Double check regarding the Conduit having a pocket for a pad. Unless something has changed, it just has a pair of straps designed to keep a pad in place.

I've just used the GG NightLight as a back pad, so I can not comment on the rolling option.

Personally, I think the idea that the sleeping pad creates a frame or adds support is pretty gimmicky. I pack my pack using a very organized and modular technique, so I feel a sleeping pad frame adds very little support for the pack structure.

People using looser, or alternative, packing techniques stand to gain the most from a sleeping pad frame.

Just speculating here, but if you have a pad that would make sense to roll along the interior of the pack, then I think that would be the better option. Like I said, I don't have a pad that can be packed in rolled-mode; but it just makes more sense to me.

Whoops, you are correct, it uses straps. I was thinking of the GG packs, which use the pocket. I don't like thier shoulder straps though.

Anyways, I would be using a GG Nighlite 3/4 or a Z-rest.

So are you saying the pack gets it's support and rigidity from being packed tightly and not from the pad? That is interesting, I never knew that. I thought even a foam pad would help. The Vapor Trail for example basically just has a very dense foam pad for a frame.

Adrian:

I use the trifold version, and you are right that it is thick when folded. I didn't really find a way that made sense to roll it since the torso length just isn't long enough to fully enclose the interior.

In my experiment, rolling it would basically only cover about 3/4 of the circumference leaving the rear of the pack exposed. This effectively made all of the contents "fall" towards the exposed rear of the pack doing an even worse job of pushing the weight away from my back.

I haven't had any trouble folding the thick pad against my back; but you are right in that it is not ideal.

I'm curious how you've managed to get the rolled technique to work with the torso length pad.

Jeff,

I'm not saying that conclusively, as I'm no expert on the matter; but that certainly seems to be the case to me.

I've used the Conduit as a daypack without a "frame" and the results were awful because so few contents were in it. A pad frame would have helped some (in fact I ordered the daypack pad frame, but didn't use it here) in this scenario, but I still don't think the results would be favorable.

You are right that most pads used as frames in other packs, and even bookbags, are much more dense than what we typically sleep on. They are also immobile, given that they are stitched into a tight, permanent sleeve.

Does a pad help? Yes. But it is no alternative to a true frame, or even a frame like you mention used in the Vapor Trail.

Craig – that's interesting, in my MLD Zip there's a slight overlap even. But even with the front of the pack not covered, thats ok, with some bungee or compression straps everything should end up snug enough?

Andrew Skurka uses the same pad in the similar Jam2, his description (from http://www.andrewskurka.com/advice/recommendations/packs.php) is:

"To give a frameless pack some shape and structure, I insert my closed-cell foam pad as a cylinder into the pack, then fill up the cylinder with my belongings like I'm playing a game of Tetris, trying to fill all empty spaces and to achieve tight fits. "

I think you're right that with careful packing you can make a pack rigid without a pad, but I find that hard to manage reliably every time I pack with ever-changing contents (as food goes down during trips, and between each trip with different gear).

I have a Conduit and a Zip. For the Conduit i use the GG Torso pad folded into the sleeve, and find it very comfortable. With the Zip, i use a 3/8" GG pad rolled as a tube. Also very comfortable.

Most folks using these packs are carrying a minimalist load, and don't have many items that can poke you in the back. I always try to pack anything with a hard edge in one of the outside mesh pockets. I think outside pockets are vital on an UL pack for this reason. The only 'hard' bit of kit that doesn't always fit into the outside pockets, is my cooking pot (depends which one i'm using) and i pack that at the top of the back.

Weight transfer to the hips isn't really an issue with UL loads.

Well, this isn't the information I expected but I'm glad I got it anyways. Sounds like a frameless pack isn't for me. I've had to pack around my 10 pound laptop for about 3/4 of a mile through the work parking lot and my shoulders hurt after that!

My load for this trips will be pretty light by my usual standards, about 15-20 pounds for the pack and everything in it. I would have thought some sort of "foam pad frame" would help, but it looks like I'll be sticking with my framed Catalyst.

Mike: With the Conduit, do you find all the load goes to the shoulders? I know this has probably been beaten to death, but how much weight are you carrying in it?

Thanks for all the info guys.

To me, the key is compression. The pad can help facilitate a good packing job but will not make up for a bad packing job.

IMHO, the objective is to have a backpack that is a rigid object when packed. As mentioned earlier, squeezing items in like a "Tretis" game is an excellent illustration! Every void must be filled such that there is some strain on the outer fabric. I think this is where a CCF pad placed in circular fashion can help distribute that load and smooth out any pressure points on the seams. This will perhaps protect the backpack but it is not absolutely necessary for the structure.

Now, this is where the use of a flexible compression system becomes so important. I believe it is one of the most critical characteristics to consider in selecting a frameless pack. I think Brian Frankle at ULA-equipment has become the master of compression. As consummables are used up, the pack needs to be able to retain the same rigidity of structure that it started out with.

Hi Jeff.
The most i've carried in the Conduit is around 8/9kg. 18/20 pounds. That was with 6 days food. I find the Conduit one of the most comfortable packs i've ever used. I pack everything loosely so there is no empty spaces. The pack seems to mould to my back, with the load spread evenly. The teardrop shape seems to help with spreading the load, and keeping the centre of gravity low. It's as if i'm wearing the sack, rather than carrying it. Does that make sense? :)

Jeff – I've regularly carried 20-22lbs in my MLD Zip comfortably, with most of the load on my hips. I find the sleeping pad really does help achieve this, as does having a 'full' pack.

One person's comfort is another's discomfort though. You certainly can't go wrong with an internal frame pack.