shipping costs

Ironically it is a very heavy book ; )

Of course if it's UNDER 70lb, it can ship for $4.95 anywhere in the US in a USPS Small Flat Rate Box. This includes the box being delivered to the sender, AND the box AND USPS also claim they will come pick the box up from the sender. It's a bargain. And if you act now and buy online you can get it for $4.80.

Of course someone at BPL has to put the book in the box and print your label off from your online order, so I guess that adds up.

This book ships via one of the following methods:

USPS Priority Mail
FedEx Ground
FedEx Standard Overnight
FedEx 2nd Day Express

And yes we add a handling fee to our shipping because – well, honestly – someone has to handle it and they get paid to do that ; )

Sam,

If I go into a store and purchase a book, someone had to take that book from the stockroom, put it on the shelf, take my money, maybe talk to me for a few minutes about where to find it, or what the name of the book is. They have to have enough staff that someone is at the register all day, even when some of the staff are at lunch or the toilet.

They do all this, and yet still sell the merchandise for the ticketed price. I'm not sure how or why it is that online retailers feel that they can't do this. I do understand that there's no such thing as free postage or free labour. What I would really like is for this to be a clear and transparent cost, or even better for the purchase cost to include this labour cost, just like it does in every B&M store.

Regards, Rod

I was thinking the same thing Rod.

Yes, someone has the package up the book and send it, but there are labour costs associated with selling just about anything. Plus online stores save on overheads because they don't need a bricks and mortar store (or can have a smaller one) and don't need to have staff available to sell you something.

Shipping costs seem to be one area where BPL isn't too friendly towards their customers/members. On just about everything else they are great.

It's also not very smart from a business perspective. How many people are willing to pay $11 shipping on a $24 book? I wouldn't be.

If necessary, bump up your list price for items on the website. But don't hide the price in a "handling" fee. BPL may consider it "reasonable" but most customers will be unpleasantly surprised… not a recipe for a happy shopping experience. If I decide not to buy (on the basis of the extortionate shipping cost) then you've just wasted a bunch of my time.

Please put your costs up front in the purchase price, and make shipping costs reflective of actual shipping cost!!

BPL thank you for finaly responding to this issue.
Us international customers have posted about this and unfortunely BPL chose not to respond at the time.

I agree, BPL hiding their margins in an absurdly high shipping cost is unfair and (I feel) unethical. Charge more for the gear and honestly for the shipping. Right now it just feels like gouging, becouse of that they have lost me as a customer.

BPL thank you for finaly responding to this issue.

Uh, they haven't… yet.

Well, I guess I have a little different perspective. Yes, to charge over $10 for shipping a book is a little steep. If I just wanted the book, I could buy it on Amazon for $16.97, purchase another qualifying book for $8.53 or more and get free shipping. Basically I could buy 2 or more books for the same total price as from BPL.

So maybe… I wouldn't buy the book alone from BPL. But on the other hand, maybe it is not so bad. Please read on…

I wanted/needed a Bearthooth Merino Woody (nothing comparable in the market) so I just added the book to that order, and the shipping was the same for both.

The way I look at it, the store has some unique items and some comparable items I can get anywhere. If possible, and within reason, I try (and have)to purchase from BPL.

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The income helps support the forums, which cost money to operate, and are FREE. Yes, you can charge everyone to use the forums, but your membership will decline. So if you use these forums, perhaps you should re-think this. If you are a Premium Member, you are paying for the Premium Services, not the forums. So perhaps it might be worthwhile to consider that purchasing an item will help keep this forum going. There is no free lunch in life.

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BPL cannot be everything to everyone, and I am sure it is not a huge profit making machine. Should it get to that point, it will probably lose its luster and become more "mainstream" ala Backpacker Magazine. In its beginning, it was an awesome publication… now it has gone mainstream to generate profits for its shareholders, and generally has no value for me. I cancelled my subscription 20 years ago.

Similarly I have noticed that GoLite's offering are getting heavier and heavier. Probably they need to make their products more mainstream to increase the volume of sales, to remain profitable. I may be wrong here.

Perhaps BPL should re-evaluate the shipping on smaller items. But this becomes more difficult to set-up in an automated online store.

BPL is not a huge retailer. Nor are Gossamer Gear, Six Moons, Mountain Laurel Designs, ULA, etc, etc. They do not have huge inventories and you often have to wait a long time to get what you want. But all of them provide unique, useful and quality products. So paying a little more is in the best interest of many UL users. And none of these companies are huge financial successes (use your own definition). Shop for price only, and eventually you will be making your own gear or buying whatever REI, TNF, Montbell, Patagonia, etc wants you to buy… not what you want or need.

Just my 2 cents.

The USPS offers media mail rates for books, and it would cost less than $2 to ship that product. Media Mail covers such products as undeveloped film, manuscripts, recorded media on CD, or DVD etc.. and BOOKS

you guys are charging $11 postage for a book that would naturally be 20% of that cost. im reading valid complaints from your members and it should be addressed.

sounds to me like Sam is ok with BPL charging its members extra money for "handling". are the customers willing to pay you to get off your a$$?.. I doubt that.

Well said, Mike. So much for passing the savings on to the customer. The shipping costs at BPL have always seemed high, and now, thanks to Sam, we know why.

I understand handling costs but I don't understand the choice of the expensive methods of shipping. I would probably buy more from BPL but I save up on items ordered until I have enough to justify the shipping. Sometimes some of what I wanted is out of stock and I go looking for items from other sources.

Keep the ideas coming. I would like to hear more brainstorming on shipping methods.

I know from doing business with BPL that they are running
things on a shoestring. Tho it may appear otherwise from the
shipping charge, they are not gouging.

This a pretty common situation among small
online stores.

The pluses of using priority mail-

If priority mail is used, you can print labels
online and have a method for tracking too. You also get
free shipping supplies and pickup.

Minuses of media rate–

If things went media rate, there would be extra costs from
buying the boxes etc., which unless you are Amazon, can
add up if ordered in small quantities. Then you would pay
someone to stand inline at the post office. There would
be no tracking, things would arrive more slowly etc.

However that may be a better trade off for some.

OK, I didn't mean to start a firestorm. However, I did check out Ray Jardine's site and he also charges 11.95 for shipping.
I guess I was really wondering if there are alternatives.

I guess I need to give some insight from someone who has owned a few small businesses.

How do you set up your shipping department? The more options you offer, the more complicated and expensive your website becomes, more $ are invested in shipping materials, and the higher your labor costs.

If you want to determine the absolute cheapest shipping rate for each item, you are going to need to measure and weigh every single item in inventory, build a table to cover every possible shipping combination, etc. One book versus 2 or more. One book combined with other item(s). The businessman is best off to just use the averages, as BPL does.

Lets look at some shipping options for the Jardine book which has the following dimensions: 8 1/2" X 8 3/4" X 1/2" and weighs 2 lbs 4 oz.

– Priority Mail Flat Rate Envelope = $4.95
not sure book will fit in envelope
can track item
quick shipping
includes shipping package

– Priority Mail with your own envelope = $11.95
book could get damaged
must buy envelope
can track item
quick shipping

– Priority Mail Small Flat-Rate Box = N/A
book is too big for box

– Priority Mail Regular Flat-Rate Box = $10.35
can track item
quick shipping
includes shipping package

– Priority Mail in your own shipping box = $11.95

– USPS Media Mail (2.4 lbs + box) = $2.93
cannot track item unless purchase green label
green label tracking requires trip to PO
need to purchase & stock misc boxes
more expensive labor costs
up to 14 days delivery time

Similar issues with FedEx & UPS

BPL will ship the book via FedEx Ground for $7.74

How can Amazon.com ship cheaper?
– Cost to ship the Jardine book is $3.99
– Amazon.com does HUGE volume
– It took Amazon TEN YEARS to turn their first profit!
– Book is listed, but not in stock

Again, BPL is not ripping anyone off, they are just trying to stay in business and offer good products and service. I have placed 3 orders with BPL in the past few months. Great service and I always recieve my order in excellent condition in 2 – 3 days, using their cheapest shipping method. And if I end up paying an couple extra few bucks for shipping, I am okay with that, as it helps keep them in business and keeps the community forums running.

I fully understand what you're saying about helping to keep a good company in business and I have no gripes with BPL…
HOWEVER…
I am not exactly thrilled about the general concept of making "charitable donations" to FOR-PROFIT companies when I have my own "community" to support- MY FAMILY, FRIENDS, AND I.

Lets look at some shipping options for the Jardine book which has the following dimensions: 8 1/2" X 8 3/4" X 1/2" and weighs 2 lbs 4 oz.

Wow, that's a heavy book. I thought Sam was being a smart a$$ when he said it was a "heavy" book… as in, heavy in an intellectually challenging sense!

If priority mail actually costs $10 or $11, then it seems like BPL isn't actually adding much for "handling". I'm not sure whether this is the case for international shipping though… the costs for that have always seem ridiculous to me so I've never bought anything from BPL.

If it was in the best interest of Backpacking Light I would happily publicly display the profit we make from shipping every month. From a business perspective it is not something I am ready to do but I will say that averaging the profit and loss every month over the course of a year we are slightly above breaking even. Some of the items we ship we lose money on, some of the items we ship we make money on. I think this is fair.

Someone above was comparing our shipping methods and prices to that of Amazon.com. I must defend in this situation as it would be financially impossible for a company the size of BPL to offer the rates that Amazon can. They do such a large volume of business that it is the Walmart of the online world.

Previously I said that we add a handling fee but I should state that differently as there is no actual handling fee. I factor the weight of the product, box, and packaging. The handling costs that are incurred in our warehousing process are spread between the shipping profits and into the price of the product itself.

I hope this is helping to provide some clarity and transparency into this issue. Please also consider that in complaining about the cost of shipping the results of this are not solely in the hands of the retailer, but in the hands of the shipping service as well.

Hi Sam –

I made the comparison to Amazon, but the point was that they did not turn a profit for 10 years!!

Thanks for responding to the post to try and clear things up… and the fact that your shipping costs at the end of the year are a little over break-even is what is important.

Your shipping costs do not bother me at all… just wish you had more items in stock :)

I have been extremely pleased with the items I have purchased, and your shipping is QUICK.

– Nick

To BPL's credit:

I just recieved an order from BPL today.
You guys are awesome…I ordered stuff from two other "bigger" companies on the same day, payed the same shipping and those deliveries are still days away.

Thanks.

Geez, this reminds me why I rarely order anything from BPL. Most things that are available elsewhere can be bought much cheaper elsewhere. So finding something that is unique, I thought I would go for one of the BPL Balaclavas, until I saw that it would cost $12.60 to ship this 2 oz item.

@Tom: that's weird, I just got my BPL UL60 balaclava and BPL PRO60 side zip pants and the shipping was $9.47 in total. Do they sometimes charge more to ship less??? Perhaps it is an incentive to BUY MORE STUFF!!! ;-)

Who knows, the shipping for the Cocoon Vest was less than the Pro 90 Balaclave, but the shipping for a UL 60 Balaclava was only $6.99. Now, I've already changed my mind.

Shipping cost is loosely based on item weight. Depending on who entered the item into the database and when they entered it some items may actually weigh less but cost slightly more to ship. It also based on where you live. Someone who lives in San Francisco is going to pay significantly less shipping than someone who lives in Atlanta.