Gas canister use in cold

I just got back from 10 days in Canmore and found out the hard way that my MSR Pocket Rocket does not do so well in the cold..lol

I had to keep taking it apart and shaking the cannister to thaw out the fuel and then reassemble and re-light it ever 5 minutes. Luckily the guy I was with had to head out to work for 2 days early in the trip and brought back my old Peak 1 white gas stove.

Mike

With a Pocket Rocket, your options are limited to:

1) Use a winter mix canister containing 80% iso-butane, if you can get it.

2) Keep the canister warm in your sleeping bag. Even keeping it inside the tent is better than leaving it outside.

3) Sit the canister in a bowl of warm water. When it's too cold to even warm some water, urine does the trick.

But really, no upright gas stove works well in the cold when the canister is less than half full.

Earlier in this thread I posted a pic of white gunge on the tip of a needle valve.

At that stage I though the white gunge might be left-over odorant, but I now think that was wrong. I think it is a paraffin. This could get in the canister if the factory filling it does not filter the gas properly. I guess they might think that the canister will always be used upright, so a bit of gunge at the bottom at the end does not matter. And that would explain why the Coleman Powermax canisters never give any problem: the filling company has to use a more refined form of the gas to comply with Coleman specs.

Cheers

Roger, does that mean using an inverted canister is maybe not recommended?

There are things you can do to use canister in cold like having a properly designed reflector or wrap a copper wire around the canister and then up into the flame.

Maybe this is a better solution?

Hi Jerry

> does that mean using an inverted canister is maybe not recommended?
No. It does mean two things.

First, you may need to pick what brands of canister you buy. There really are differences in quality, but testing them yourself may be the only way to decide. We could do a survey, but we have no control over what the filling companies do, and they may change at any time.

Second, if you know about this problem, then you can arrange to be able to do a quick field strip on a long trip. For instance, some stoves lock the valve in with a pin, so you can't unscrew it completely. Well, consumer safety is a great thing, but really that seems to be going too far. I remove the pin at home and don't replace it, but you could equally put a short removable bit of wire through the holes. If you think the valve is getting blocked, disconnect from the canister, whip the valve out, wipe it and replace. If you know what you are doing, it may take just a minute or two. We do have an article on field servicing for this very problem:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/essential_stove_maintenance.html

> wrap a copper wire around the canister and then up into the flame.
This will work sometimes. It is a fairly unexplored area. Certainly, if you have an isobutane/propane canister and its only -5 C, it is worth considering.

Cheers

Hi Roger

The white 'gunge' at point F will probably not cause much of a problem. If it were to accumulated on the tapered part D then it could do.
However I'd be more concered with the possibility of it accumulating in the jet, particularly if the jet has some kind of filter built in as many do. The jet is not easily removed in-field as it is usually tightly screwed in, often with some nut-lock, to ensure a gas-tight seal.
So far I have not seen anything like this accumulate in my stoves. I do have a bunch of empty canisters – I might cut some open to see if there is anything left inside…

cheers

I noticed some Coleman canisters with a "self sealing" label on them. I;m not sure what it means, since even a lindal valve can be considered a self sealing device. But if it is anything like a fuel cell or a tire, the slight amount of liquid gunk in there could be leading to problems with some canisters if they are inverted, ie a true self sealer…

Self sealing refers to the lindal valve on the canister. At the time colman introduced their canisters with self sealing lindal valves Camping Gaz had a line of stoves that used canisters that didn't have valves. The camping Gaz canisters (now discontinued) could not be removed from the stove until they were empty. Today all hiking stove canister fuels have lindal valves including the new Camping Gaz canisters "Camping Gaz is now only available in europe).

The colman canisters were just aluminum cans with a valve. Today steal is the common metal of choice. They don't have anything in common with self sealing fuel cells and tires.

Hi Stuart

> The white ‘gunge’ at point F will probably not cause much of a problem. If it were to accumulated
> on the tapered part D then it could do.
I agree, except … when it is really cold the wax can get quite solid and block the valve up. That can make it difficult to get the stove started. It also depends on which direction the gas is flowing. No problem in warm weather.

> The jet is not easily removed in-field as it is usually tightly screwed in, often with
> some nut-lock, to ensure a gas-tight seal.
Hum??? I don’t think I have ever seen a lock nut on the jet of an upright canister stove. Never. Pictures of lock nuts?

Yes, the jet can be delivered really locked down tightly, but with any new stove I always make sure I can get the valve out when first checking it at home. I carry a tiny spanner made of sheet Ti for the jet: the spanner must weigh all of 1 gram.

Does the jet need to be locked down that tight? Not really, in my experience. Any leak from a jet done up very loosely will (usually) be very small compared to the main blast out of the jet hole. Yes, I have tried running with a jet screwed in just finger tight – it was fine.

Is it worth the effort to be able to fiedl service the jet? Oh yes! Some jets have a built-in filter, but they can get blocked up – see my Stove Maintenance article for an example. I recently found a dead ant right inside the jet: that blocked the jet absolutely. I have also had to clean out dirt from the jet – it may have come from the canister.

Cheers

> Self sealing refers to the lindal valve on the canister.
Yes. But its Lindal with a cap.

> The camping Gaz canisters (now discontinued) could not be removed from the stove until
> they were empty.
No way have they been discontinued. They are still in big supply across Europe. We normally call them Bleuet canisters as that is the original label. Finding them in America may be difficult. No loss.

I do NOT like them. I had a Bleuet stove leak inside my pack once. Dangerous, and smelly.

The French CampingGaz brand is now owned by Coleman. The CampingGaz Lindal valve canister does not use the screw thread, but otherwise looks very similar. They too are widely available in Europe as you say. We have emptied many of them.

Cheers

International terminology I guess, nutlock also called threadlock is an anaerobic curing fluid that sets, but not like glue. Aussie term?

Hi Stuart

Oh – threadlock? OK.
Can't say I have ever noticed it on the jet threads, but maybe I wasn't looking. Silly place to put it anyhow!

I INSIST on being able to field-service my stoves. I have only once had to offer my wife a cold dinner – but that was a long time ago, in the snow, with a Coleman Peak Apex II running kero. Fortunately, she was very understanding. That incident led to the Stove Maintenance article in a way.

Cheers