Rip-off by MSR ?

Perhaps MSR is licensing some of the design concepts from Tarptent. The Tarptent site does show the Rainbow as patent pending…

oh, the MSR is using pole clips, what a novel idea! But this is just a modified Hubba right? yuck.

has anyone modded the rainbow to use pole clips?

nm

Similar but enough difference is my guess. Pole clips and probably different attachment of poles to bottom.

Folks can click HERE for more info.

Since the copycat is an American company, there won’t be any need for “patriotic” sentiments or attacks this time around… :)

>Perhaps MSR is licensing some of the design concepts from Tarptent.

Very definitely, NOT.

> The Tarptent site does show the Rainbow as patent pending…

Very definitely, YES.

-H

Does anyone remember from the Outdoor Retailer Show (or whatever it's called) about 4 years ago when some compnay was there showing off some Chinese knockoffs of the MSR Denali snowshoes? Well, MSR was there and confronted one of the guys. He pleaded ignorance and even offered to start carrying the MSR versions instead!

I can't remember the exact specifics, but it was something like that. Anyways the point is MSR should know better after having their designs ripped off.

I think Henry just hired himself a lawyer.

nm

I just got finished sharpening the tips on my Ti pitchfork someone bring the torches lets get the mob together.

David Ure wrote:

"-What the hell is Hyperlight?"

Spun BS, of course! MSR must be contracting with Microsoft's marketing department :)

From my perspective, it seems that "borrowing" from the designs and successes of others is a common practice within the sporting goods industry. For better and for worse, popular designs are regularly copied and modified.

The Carbon Reflex 1 does remind of a Hubba, but does appear to borrow heavily from the Rainbow. I own several Tarptents myself and want Henry to profit from his designs.

But to play the devil's advocate, couldn't one make an argument that the Scarp1 borrows heavily from the Hilleberg Akto? (Which may borrow from some other tent?)

Tarptent Scarp1

Hilleberg Akto

I've got tar and feathers… Let's rock and roll. We need a slogan… any ideas?

>But to play the devil's advocate, couldn't one make an argument that the Scarp1 borrows heavily from the Hilleberg Akto? (Which may borrow from some other tent?)

The Scarp 1 is also patent-pending because, if you look closely, the support structure at the corners is substantially different and, among other benefits, allows for the free-standing configuration. It is true that the Akto and Scarp 1 share a common central arch support (as do any number of other shelters) but beyond that the two shelters diverge. As far as I am aware, the Scarp design has never been done before. Same is true for the Rainbow in the "free-standing" with trekking poles configuration. I will leave it as an exercise to the reader to compare the MSR product to ours.

-H

nm

Henry,
There's no real comparison. Especially when you consider the prices.

Henry –

Thanks for the discussion regarding the Akto vs. Scarp1; I actually do believe that the MSR tent borrows egregiously from your design.

This somewhat reminds me of the entire Teva vs. Walmart lawsuit several years ago that resulted in a rare victory against the big box store.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_19971223/ai_n10114294

Dirk

nm

Just to be fair, the Akto uses Kerlon fabric, which has been tested to be much stronger than regular fabric. I don't know anyone else that does, so from a fabric point of view, that is a BIG difference between the Hillebergs and other companies.

Disclaimer – I am an authorized retailer for Hilleberg shelters.

The Scarp well illustrates the point ( I think)
Inasmuch as most will compare it to the Akto, owners of the Exped Vela (1-2-Mesh) or the Laser (Laser-Laser Competition-Laser Photon) as well as the lesser known Vango/Robens/Fjallraven and Robert Saunders versions of the single cross hoop design , must be getting a bit miffed having their shelter ignored.
( I would if I had spent $500 on a tent that takes me 10 min to put up and needs new pegs)
Really since TNF came up with the dome design, most dome tents look the same. Who was the first to cross two poles to get a freestanding design ? I don't know but how many tents basically look like a Bibler I tent ?
The difference is in the detail. When you look carefully at the various models mentioned above you will see that all they really have in common is that center pole. The vents are different ( in fact for a while the Akto adopting the concept of a Swedish sauna, did not have one) , the end support is different, some don't have any or have it at one end only; some use struts (single or double) others use mini arches.
As HS as pointed out none can be freestanding (yet..) , all of the solo versions and some double have one vestibule/one entry, the Scarp has two and as far as end support the Scarp has enough to keep some of the others up as well.
If HS had added a "zipperless" entry, than that would have been coping the Exped…
When I look at the MSR CR1 in "freestanding " mode I don't see a generic longitudinal single hoop tent, I see a Rainbow wearing nylon stockings, but nevertheless a Rainbow.
Franco
For the record, it took me exactly 3 min to put the Akto up (showroom taut) the second time.Try that with the TN

Charles
Good point. As an ad here says "oils aint oils"

Disclamer
I have and use Cascade Design (MSR) products

Makes me wonder how effective are patents anyway? I always get the impression that you need to spend a lot of money to hire lawyers to defend yourself — although I suppose it can be all worthwhile depending on what's at stake.

As far as I can tell, Henry is the first to come up with the longitudinal pole/freestanding design. Separately, I also believe Big Agnes was the first with the hub/pole design which Kelty and others have copied — with apparently no hindrance or penalty…

I wonder if somewhere in China we could find a TT Rainbow for $50?

Just kidding… but Under Armour has a baselayer fleece that is EXACTLY like the Patagonia R1 (non-hoody) pullover. Down the to checkered pattern, thumb holes, stretch…

Hi Franco

> Who was the first to cross two poles to get a freestanding design ?
Well, I designed and built one of the first, around 1965. This is V2 of that tent. Acrylic-coated nylon and fibreglass poles, freestanding.

Yes, you can see guy ropes. I'm not stupid – that's a high alpine area!
Cheers

Ben
In the photographic trade some are of the opinion that Kodak is still around only because of the revenue is collecting from its patents. Canon for the last 16 years has been one of the top three patent recipient in the US. It spends a fortune in R&D (about 10% of sales revenues) and it wants that and more back. For example a Canon engineer had the bright idea of adding icons (man running/flower/mountain symbol) to the control dial ( the one that had shutter speeds/A/P/M on it) , and of course patented the idea. Since then every single camera made with that type of dial has made some money for Canon…
Franco