Western Mountaineering and Marmot

WM ratings: Conservative, which is proably to say they are rated at a comfy temp rather than extreme.

>Also are the six additional ounces worth the water protection on the Marmot Helium EQ vs. regular Marmot Helium

Not IMHO. For an extra 6oz you could carry a nice bivy bag and benefit from the extra optional warmth it adds, as well as the ability to remove the wet outer layer before you pack up your bag in the morning.

What Allison said.

Dennis,
IIRC WM is regarded as one of the few US based bag mfg's that have conservative (i.e. trustworthy) ratings. these are comfort ratings (for men!)
Obviously (and I assume it is discussed elswhere) the comfort depends on many other factors (clothing worn to bed, sleep warm/cold, shelter type, humidity, pad choice, well fed/feel good etc)
My personal experience with WM (i had the versalite) was that they reflected reasonable ratings in good tent with LS baselayer.

RE Marmot EQ – not enough info there – really depends on how you plan to use it. Very rough generalization – unless you plan on doing something that will let your bag get really exposed (as in rain on the bag, extremely high humidity, sustained wind driven rain in exposed shelter like tarp) or plan to use it for porlonged periods in super low temps (where moisture trapped in the bag has very little chance of drying) i wouldnt consider it. The penalty is really great (IIRC its about 24oz diff in the total weight..dunno how u figured 6oz). Either just go with regular or get a SUL bivi

of course if tell us more about what you are thinking of doing it will help

YMMV
Mike

I am thinking of getting a synthetic bag for my MN training hikes because I want to wash them weekly due to MN ticks. I am training for the JMT in which I will use a WM Summerlite (like I did last summer). I am looking at either getting a North Face Cat's Meow (rated 20F, 2 lb 10 oz) or Marmot Pounder Plus (rated 25F, 2 lb 2 oz).

How do you all rate these two companies, Marmot and North Face for accurately depicting the temperature ratings of their synthetic bags? Similar to the level of how WM rates their bags? Thanks!

The regular Marmot will breath better, so moisture doesn't build up on long trips.
I've been using the regular Helium and a monbell 7 oz bivy.
The two work well together. I've never had condensaton on the inside of the bivy like I did with my other conduit sl bivy.

American companies have a reputation for rating their synthetic bags over-optimistically. Based on my experience, I tend to agree.

Fortunately, both of the bags you are considering have been independently rated by the European Outdoor Group based on their performance on copper manikins in climate controlled chambers. The Cats Meow received a Lower Limit Rating of 25F for the "standard man" while the Pounder Plus received a 36F rating.

Dondo, your input is better than all the google research I did for 2 weeks. Any link(s) to what you posted? Your news is very welcomed as the Cat's Meow is $120 v. the Pounder Plus being $150 at Campmor.com (cheapest I could find).

Dennis,

I have been using the Marmot Helium EQ for a year or two now and my hiking buddy has the Marmot Helium.

Both are great bag and I can tell you that the EQ is completely waterproof, if you seam seal it.

That said, I would recommend that if you are getting the Marmot, get the regular Helium, save the weight and get a bivy bag.

My EQ was my 1st down bag and I am very paranoid about water.

Knowing what I know now, save the weight and money and get youself a nice bivy bag.

Mountain Laurel Designs makes some bivies in the 6 to 8 oz range that will serve you well and a bivy will provide additional warmth.

That said, the Helium in both versions are great bags….I have even used my 15 F EQ down to 5 F by laying up my clothing and using my MLD Soul Side Zip Bivy.

The temperature ratings on the Heliums are accurate, but I suspect that the final weight of the bag is going to be off….could up slightly under or over what is listed.

I absolutely love the interior fabric of the Helium…it feels like silk, but is not down proof…get used to losing 2 feathers per usage.

The Helium is also wider cut, some people like or dislike it.

There is also no chest gasket/baffle, but the hood cinches up so nicely, I don't find that it is an issue.

Hope that this helps.

-Tony

Raleigh, my above post was based on information I collected last year from the European sites for TNF and Marmot. I did a quick check of the current versions of these bags and the news is better. The new Pounder Plus gets a 32F rating while the new Cats Meow gets a 19F rating.

http://www.marmot.de/index.php?page=products

On the Marmot site look for the colored stripes where it says EN tested. The number you are interested in is listed between the yellow and the blue.

http://www2.thenorthface.com/opencms/opencms/tnf/gear.jsp?site=EU&model=AM7Q&language=en

On the North Face site look for the middle number next to where it says temp. rating and convert to Fahrenheit.

Thanks again, Dondo. Tried to PM the thanks but your profile is not setup yet for receiving PMs.

Dondo,

Did you ever look into the Mountain Hardwear Ultralamina

I checked the Europeran site it claims the same 15F -9C as the US/Canada site.

Both the lamina and ultralamina seem to be decent synthetic bags. I'm considering the ultralamina for wet conditions.

Martin, the Mountain Hardwear Ultralamina 15, cheapest cost I could find was $150 which is $30 more than Campmor's price for the Cat's Meow, 4 oz more weight, for only 4 degrees colder temperatures. If I can stay warm down to 19F that will be good enough for me, but thanks for the heads up. It was worth looking into.

PS – thanks to Dondo's input, I just ordered the TNF Cat's Meow at Campmor where their price is the lowest now, $119. Thanks, again, Dondo!

Wow, Martin. I've been looking for the European Mountain Hardware site for a while. Could you post the url for it? Thanks.

Never mind, Martin. I just found it. It doesn't appear that the Mountain Hardware bags have been EN rated. Too bad. They look like good bags.

>>PS – thanks to Dondo's input, I just ordered the TNF Cat's Meow at Campmor where their price is the lowest now, $119. Thanks, again, Dondo!

Enjoy your new bag, Raleigh.