Early Spring / Late Fall list

Daniel,

Here's my insights:

Three water vessels? One is fine!

What?!?! a ONE POUND filter? Nix it. Just use aqua-mira drops.

Trowel? Improvise with a tent stake or a stick.

TP is NOT a consumable, there is a very simple way (without using your hand) to get that weight down to zero!

What's the ever-clear for? 12 oz???

No need for a big (2.8") knife. Just take a 0.1 oz razor blade in a cardboard holder.

the micro fleece pullover is 11.65 oz, and a synthetic puffy is warmer and pretty much just as light.

No rain coat?

Add 2 pounds for water (consumable) for a more accurate pack weight.

A 16 pound pack weight is pretty good, your ankles should be fine with sneakers.

No need for DEET in early spring or late fall.

Minimize your stuff sacks. You have a lot of 'em.

Toothbrush? Toothpaste? Sun-block? Sleeping socks?

(hows this?)

"My ankles are rubber and I have to hike in boots (recomendations welcome)."

Assuming you don't have a congenital disorder or legacy issues from an accident –

Find a physical therapist who's into sports and get some instruction. A wobble board and some regular (like 4/day) training may allow you to drop the boots and get some trail runners. And then you'll just get stronger.

Three water vessels? One is fine!

Just use aqua-mira drops. – Still on the fence on this one

Trowel? Improvise with a tent stake or a stick. – Done, trowl is gone.

TP is NOT a consumable, there is a very simple way (without using your hand) to get that weight down to zero! – I've read your extensive posts on the subject. Thanks, I'll use TP.

What's the ever-clear for? 12 oz??? Beverage :) Also antiseptic, or fire starter

No need for a big (2.8") knife. Just take a 0.1 oz razor blade in a cardboard holder. – I agree, it's just one of those items I always feel good about having. Although, I hardly use the thing. Any clever way to make the razor blade holder, or just folded cardboard and tape?

the micro fleece pullover is 11.65 oz, and a synthetic puffy is warmer and pretty much just as light. – What is a puffy?

No rain coat? – Not yet. Any recomendations, on the cheap? I have an old vinyl poncho I usually pack but it is not UL.

Add 2 pounds for water (consumable) for a more accurate pack weight. – Fair enough.

A 16 pound pack weight is pretty good, your ankles should be fine with sneakers. – It's more of a clumbsy thing. I have lost a bunch a weight recently which helps this a lot. Maybe I'll try my cross trainers on the trail before investing in some fancy trail runners.

No need for DEET in early spring or late fall. – Ticks fear no season in my neck of the woods. I'll keep the deet.

Minimize your stuff sacks. You have a lot of 'em. – I was noticing that. My mug can hold my fule and stove and windscreen. I guess I use its stuff sack to keep the lid on. I was thinking about swaping for a rubberband or something.

Toothbrush? Toothpaste? Sun-block? Sleeping socks? – Yes, toothbrush is coming with me, I forgot to list it. A bit of baking soda will do for tooth paste. I am under canopy most of the time and I don't burn easily, even mid-summer, no sunblock needed. I have never used sleeping socks, but it sounds like a good idea.

Thanks for the input!

.

.

LINK to tiny knife article:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/ultralight_knives.html

1. Maybe I'll try my cross trainers on the trail before investing in some fancy trail runners.

YES! The whole point of the light pack is to wear light shoes!

2. Actually, Add 2.2 pounds for 1-liter of water (consumable) for a more accurate pack weight. Then you can give proper data on the pack at the trail head as you take your first step on the trail.

3. No rain coat? – Not yet. Any recomendations, on the cheap? The BPL (6.6 oz) DRI-DUCKS is fine. Only 19 bucks (with pants).

4. What is a puffy? A synthetic or down jacket with high loft PUFFY insulation. There are a million versions. (see link)

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/cocoon_ul_60_pullover.html

5. Just use aqua-mira drops. [Still on the fence on this one] Oh C'mon, you can NIX almost a WHOLE POUND! There is no other place in this list where you can do that! Repackage the aqua-mira in BPL tiny dropper bottles.

6. Well, TP is still NOT a consumable. Move it off the consumable list at least.

peace – Mike!

Thanks for the tips so far.

I am confused on categories,
Correct me if any of this is wrong:

Consumables: Stuff that will be spent, eaten, burned or otherwise turned in to something you no longer have to carry in your backpack when you are done using it.

Base weight: any item that you hike in which must also be hiked out.

If this is correct, my mini droppers would be base weight but the contents would be a consumable?

This may be splitting hairs. I think I may just include the mini-droppers plus content in base weight. What are your thoughts?

Also, if I may indulge in another list related topic:

What are the basic "system" categories? They seem to differ on lists. On mine I have my sleeping system and shelter combined under shelter. I'm not too hung up on any of this but it helps when I compare my list to other peoples' if I am comparing apples to apples.

CONSUMABLES: Oh, you are a toilet paper burner. I see. I have tried burning toilet paper, and I never can quite get it all burned down to ash. Put it where you guess it should go. THe weight isn't much.

BASE WEIGHT: The weight of the contents of the pack, minus consumables. (same as your definition).

CONSUMABLES: Don't sweat over tiny items like sunblock and aqua-mira. Nobody truly puts these in consumables unless they are really nerdy. Plus, subtracting the weight of the vessel is too much work.

NO RULES ABOUT CATAGORIES: Look thru the gear lists – Ryan Jordan is kind of the standard bearer.

Thanks man. I am a nerd but that is a different story.

As for burning TP, yes I do. I respect your opinion, therefore on my next trip out I will bring TP but I will try your methods and not use the TP unless I find the technique too cumbersome or too nasty. I have 3 kids so I’ve had poo on my hands plenty of times, and I gotta tell you it still makes me squirmy.

I also got some micropur tabs to try.

I got a Gerber LST Ultralight knife at .55 oz, it isn’t a .1 oz utility blade but it’s a step in the right direction.

Thanks for the toothpaste dots idea, I’m making them now.

What is your preference on water treatment? I like the individually sealed tabs because I only get the chance to backpack 3-4 times a year for 2-3 days at a time. I was under the impression that some of the chemical water treatments start to expire as soon as you open them. I know you can seal them and put them in the refrigerator but I doubt their effectiveness after a year.

Those puff jackets are a wee bit out of my operating budget. Maybe I’ll fish for one in Gear Swap.

I will update my list tomorrow. I know it is not an exciting through hike expedition list or a crazy “sub 5” list but I really appreciate the help.

1. Toilet paper freedom. You will NOT get pooo on your hands! You must read the TOILET PAPER FREE ARTICLE. Another poster was promoting his technique, and his technique involves direct hand contact. The article describes techniques that involve natural toilet paper.

LINK:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/toilet_paper_free.html

2. WATER TREATMENT:
I Use Aqua-Mira, it lasts a LONG time, and can be easily repackaged into smaller bottles. The sealed tabs leave a chlorine taste to the water.

3. Puffy jackets are easily available. You'll stumble on something on sale soon enough.

I updated my list at the top. Things are triming down.

1. Leave behind the Car Key, ID, Credit Card – (0.9). Just hide the keys near your car. You won't need any of these items in the backcountry.

2. The GoLite pinnacle is pretty big for this minimal gear. Alas – It'll be easy to pack.

3. I would recommend a waterproofing PACK LINER. Just a simple trash bag would be fine.

Beyond the above stuff, anything else would be nit-picky. You could slice open the mountain house meal pack and add any spices you may need (including hot sauce) that way you wouldn't need the salt, pepper etc. THis won't make any real difference s far as weight BUT you'll have fewer items to deal with – just a little bit simpler.

15 pounds WITH consumables is pretty dern'd great. Make sure NOT to add any extras at the last moment. Make all your decisions with the list, and then stick with it…

Mike, at least out here in the Pacific NW we have so many car break-ins at trailheads that nobody should leave anything of value (or clues to their identity) in the car to reward these bozos. I wouldn't think of leaving stuff like credit cards or my car registration in the car. I may have to carry an ounce or two more, but at least I won't come back to the trailhead after a week to find that someone has already had a several thousand dollar shopping spree on my credit card!

Oh c'mon. I know you could find a hiding place that would stump a thief.

Remember – You will NOT need your credit card, license or key while in the mountains. This is the philosophical difference between a true lightweight camper and a "traditional" camper.

A lightweight camper would NOT bring anything they KNOW they won't need.

i think everyone should always have id with them – you never know, and besides, it's actually the law (i know a chp officer who once arrested a jogger for not having id, jaywalking and then having the additional foolishness to actually be mouthy). leaving key & credit card is also asking for trouble – they weigh almost nothing and take up almost no space – throw 'em in the pack, not worth the stress. what if you go out a different way due to emergency? at the very least, it will make it a little quicker to identify your body worst case.

also – some people, myself included, simply cannot use a chlorine method for water. I've tried every kind at least twice, and I have 100% bad reaction every time within 36 hours, sometimes faster. filter it, boil it, uv it, or risk it are my only options (or just bring enough trail water for a weekend, which i've done on several 1 night trips last couple years – doesn't count the water i boiled for meal prep).

> You will NOT need your credit card, license or key while in the mountains. This is
> the philosophical difference between a true lightweight camper and a "traditional" camper.

Errr… unless for some reason you have to change the route halfway through and exit somewhere other than at your car? Maybe the weather turned foul with snow and avalanches?

Or maybe you should carry them in case someone steals the whole car, leaving you kinda stranded?

Me, I think a credit card is a really SUL bit of insurance for emergencies at the exit.

Cheers

.

Mike,
How much do a key, credit card, and driver's license weigh
vs the potential grief if a really experienced thief(like some we have up here in the PNW) combed the area and hit the jackpot? There are better places to look for weight savings, IMO. Like TP? ;)

Cary,
What bad reaction do you have from the chlorine tabs? Is it gastrointestinal?

I’ll have to put some thought in to the key and cards. I often hike in areas, specifically the Red River Gorge in Kentucky, where there are frequently hooligans and bored locals about. Car breakins are not unheard of.

About the pack, Pinnacle, it may be a bit too big for my gear. I got it because it seemed like a very versatile frameless, and I needed a beginner frameless and it was on sale. I’ve been adding UL gear to my pack for about a year and didn’t realize how small everything would be before I bought the Pinnacle last month. It is replacing my 4lb 13oz Osprey pack. Any suggestions for a smaller pack for a kit like this?

gastrointestinal – no doubt about it

i'd say i'm in a small minority, judging from comments here & other forums, but i've heard several similar accounts from other people, so it's not just me – i'm not very sensitive to foods, but water seems to be a problem, specifically chlorine treated water

and i've just known or heard of too many issues at trailheads with break-ins, had cars break down, etc. – would hate to be without a car *and* without a credit card. fires and avalanches do occasionally impact trailheads – it's very nearly happened to me before (the tahoe fire 2 years ago – was waiting for a ride, who wound up being one of the last vehicles in/out for quite a while). if on a long point to point or loop & emergency comes up forcing a detour out, it would sure be nice to have credit/debit card & id – this nearly was an issue for me due to fire on JMT, but i'd already ditched my trip before having to consider a different detour or evac out do to a fire further south. wound up renting a car instead of waiting a few days for my ride & the credit card and id with me sure came in handy.

To me, I find it liberating and important to be free of the trappings of "THIS" world when I enter "THAT" world – even if only for a few days. Keys, ID's and credit cards are symbols of the things I want to walk away from when I travel in the mountains.

It's a deep metaphysical need in me, and it feels GOOD to leave 'em behind.

.

yet another HYOH thing

Glad I didn't take the same metaphysics class as Clelland….jk

Mike, Dave,
I have a foot in both camps on the issue. I get out to forget about the “noise” of normal life. I refuse to bring a watch, I don’t care what time it is. I do sometimes bring an MP3 player because music is very relaxing to me and does not remind me of my office cubical. I doubt I will every bring a GPS or anything that resembles a computer, I am a software engineer by trade and I don’t want that stuff around on the trail. It would be nice if I felt safe leaving my key and cards behind but I don’t think I will. Have you every tried to get a new driver license without having the old one, it’s a total pain in the a**.

Did anyone have any thoughts on pack recommendations for my kit? Anyone every cut/re-stitch the giant collar on the Pinnacle.

Thanks for the chlorine tab warning. I will try one at home and see what happens.