Backpack and sleeping bags

Noah,

The Jam2 is a good pack for a very reasonable price, but before you go out and buy a pack, I would highly suggest that you buy the rest of your gear first.

Besides overall weight, another issue that you might want to consider is the bulk/volume of your gear choices.

I would suggest getting the pack last.

It would be frustrating and unfortunately for you to buy and pack and then find out that all of your gear does not fit into the pack or that the pack is too big for your gear.

However, going back to your original question….last year I switched to a frameless pack, the Jam2, and I am very happy with it. As a lighter alternative, you might want to consider the Mountain Laurel Designs Exodus, which appears to me to be a lighter/modified Jam2 in design.

I don't use a quilt, so I can not offer you advice there.

Hope that this helps and good luck on the fun task of coming up with your gear list.

-Tony

I echo Tony's recommendation on buying the pack last.

The Jam2 is a solid pack and at $65 at some vendors it is a screamin deal.

The first question for the quilt is down or synthetic?

Once that question is answered then look into manufacturer. I have used the Mountain Laurel Designs XP quilt (synthetic) and the Jacks R' Better Hudson River (down). I highly recommend either of these quilts. I prefer down so I stuck with the JRB. They are both excellent values and warm. I think in the future I will sew a down quilt to make it exactly to my specifications.

Good luck with your gear.

The Jam2 has been around for several years and is one of those tried and true ultralight backpacks in the field. Andrew Skurka, who has thru hiked just about every North American long trail there is, has used a Jam2 on many of his treks.

Personally, though….. I don't like it. I think the torso is too short, no matter the size pack (I'm a medium and even the large pack was too small for me). It's sized so the bottom of the hipbelt sits just above your hip bone, which makes no sense to me. If the hipbelt is to transfer the load off your back and onto your bone structure (which I very much believe that a hipbelt should do in every backpack that has one), the Jam2's hipbelt utterly fails, since it can only hope to transfer the weight onto your stomach, which is not a part of your bone structure and cannot accept weight like that. I think most people who use the pack just cut off the hipbelt and use it like a day pack, so then again I could just be an outlier in the UL Backpacking community in that I actually don't tolerate weights in excess of 15 pounds to ride on my shoulders for extended periods of time.

For quilts, if you can find a Golite Ultra 20 for a good deal (people occasionally sell like new ones in the Gear Swap here for well below MSRP), I'd get one. It's not a true 20 degree bag, but if you use it with a light hooded down jacket, it will work down to the mid-20s just fine. Depending on your budget, you might want to opt for a Western Mountaineering mummy bag. They're not quilts, but they tend to be just about as light as or lighter than the lightest quilts out there+the weight from the extra insulation and the bivy you'll need to bring in order to stay just as warm in a quilt.

Also, buying your backpack last is a good idea. Some sleeping bags are bulky, some are not. You might have a bulky sleeping pad or prefer to bring a bulky cooking pot, or just a plain aluminum or titanium mug, etc. It's hard to estimate the size of the pack you'll need until you have all your gear in front of you.

Well thanks for the suggestions, I didnt really think about buying the pack last but I see that is the better choice.

I was also looking around more and I saw the Z1 UL pack from zpacks.com, is this a good choice, or do you guys prefer the Jam2?

Thanks again,
-Noah-

Many people start doing some UL with a Granite Gear Vapor Trail. I started with that, and I'm now at the ULA Conduit (08 version).

In general, it is difficult to find a concensus among members of this forum – I have heard good things about the Z1 and the jam2. im sure you have heard this before, but gear choices are largely about personal preference. This is especially true w/ UL gear, b/c there are often tradeoffs between different options. When I first found this site, I wanted to find out the BEST of each kind of gear. In reality, there is no best piece of gear.

Also, the Z1 and the Jam2 (old and new) are very different packs. The Jam2 is overall a beefier pack – it has more volume, tougher fabrics, a sternum strap, a more substantial hip belt, and lots more features. However, this comes at the price of increased weight. Once again its all about tradeoffs: do you need durability for going off trail and extra volume to carry more gear, or do you just prize the ultimate in light weight for shorter walks.

Noah, I'll through in my 2 cents with a few choices….

Pack…buying this last is generally best, but it is the backpack which is what the sport is about so buying the pack last is the hardest to resist. That being said if you go quilt and tarp/bivy in 20 degrees plus weather your stuff will easily fit in a Jam2 with room for possibly a week of food.

Let me recommend the following packs…

* Jam2 ($100) – get 08 until we know more about the 09. This pack has a thin padded sheet which acts as an extremely light frame. ~3000 cubic inches
* Granite Gear Virga ($110) – I love this pack it weighs in at 1 lb 3 oz and the shoulder straps much nicer then the Jam2. This pack has no frame at all. ~ 3000 cubic inches.
* MLD Prophet ($160) or Exodus ($165) – My pack is currently a Prophet. This is hands down my favorite pack, but it cost the most and you have to wait to have one made. The Exodus is sized similar to the Jam2 at ~3200 cubic inches and weighs ~14 oz. The prophet is slightly smaller and weighs ~11 oz.
* Other "Sturdy" pack manufacturers to consider – ULA and Six Moon Designs.
* Sylnylon packs – these packs are not as sturdy as the ones listed, that being said I would not recommend them as an entry into light weight backpacking. If you want to give them a try then yes Z-packs Z1 has a lot of great reviews. Another to look is Fanatic Fringe (Thompson Peak Pack) and if you can sew go check out Ray Jardines backpack kit at http://www.rayjardine.com (he sells quilt and tarp kits too).

On quilts – you need to know what is the temperature range you will likely be in…then how much loft will you need. A typical 3 season setup should be good to down to at least 30 degrees, preferably 20 degrees. You should look for a quilt that has a single layer of loft at least 2", preferably 2.5". Sleeping bags need double this loft (4 – 5") as they are measuring 2 layers.

Quilts (all these quilts report 2.5" loft):
* Golite Ultra ($225) – this is my current quilt, I have used it down to 20 degrees and was fine. At 19 oz it is hard to beat this quilt for the price, especially if you get it on sale.
* Jack-R-Better No Sniveller ($270, currently on sale for $230) – also a 20 degree quilt, weighs 21 oz. This quilt wins my versatility award. You can wear it like a poncho around camp. At the current sale price I would probably buy this quilt over the Golite Ultra.
* Nunatak – Arc Alpinist ($387) – weighs 20 oz in quantum fabric. Again a 20 degree bag. This is the high end option, great quilt, but it will cost you.

Jamie

I've had good results with cinching a simple webbing hip belt above my iliac crest at my "natural waist". With light packs, just anchoring the bottom firmly to my body takes about 85% of the weight off my shoulders "IF" the pack is rigid from a CCF pad, or compression, etc. I think hipbelt wings would increase the effect even more, since it would snug the pack into the curve of my lower back – transfering more weight, and making it harder for the pack to slide down (due to friction).

Peter, I just went back and reread your post and I think your words are extremely insightfull and woth repeating…

"..gear choices are largely about personal preference. This is especially true w/ UL gear, b/c there are often tradeoffs between different options. When I first found this site, I wanted to find out the BEST of each kind of gear. In reality, there is no best piece of gear."

This is why I rambled on providing so many options.

Jamie

Ultimately, whatever you decide on today may not be what you want 6 months from now. If you go with a Jam2 or Conduit you'll easily be able to resell on the forums here. Just expect a % loss, which is part of the process in going light :-)

Jamie –

lol, thanks for the compliment…i guess it's just my INTJ personality showing through. if it counts for anything, I thought your recommendations were very informative and concise. it was helpful to see a comparison of different pieces within a gear genre…exactly why I love the BPL SOTM reports!

Frank –

That is good advice. I have a problem w/ pulling the trigger on a gear decisions (especially w/ my limited budget)…I always second guess myself. I need to accept the fact that I'm going to make good and bad gear buying decisions and that it's difficult to see whether a piece of gear will work for you until you try it.

this is just my 2¢ so take it lightly…
I did things just the opposite, it was my opinion that it is NO harder to buy a pack and then fill it with gear that fits, then to do the opposite. But, maybe Im all alone in this thought.
random order, all packs I have used.
Jam2- reasonable features and low price
ULA Amp- some better features and low price
MLD- reasonble features but higher price
GG Vapor trail- useless outside pockets, i didnt like it (plus it has an unusually large extension sleeve, quite silly really)
Z1- superlight, flimsy. Blast is a Cuben version and tougher but more $$
Thompson Peak- decent enough but bad compression system
SMD comet/starlight- decent packs all around.
GG mari/miniposa- why the super-wide shoulder straps? other than that, my #2 choice.
Osprey Atmos- framed and heavier, but durable

I use quilts. I sold 2 WM bags to fund my love of quilts. I think if you understand how to use them, they will serve you well. The JrB quilts are completely awesome but have 48" circumference footboxes. Thats a lot of space to heat, IMO.
The GoLite 20 is great. If they made it in black I'd buy 3.

Curios, Mike, and just asking lightly… were you a newbie when you first bought your pack — or did you have a fairly good idea of what gear to buy (maybe not down to specifics but a good idea of the range)? I ask because the pack size needed to house a Slumberjack synthetic bag and 300 wt. fleece jacket is so much more than a UL down bag and jacket…

We have exactly the same sentiments toward Granite Gear and Gossamer Gear packs. Granite Gear makes super comfy packs, but the side pocket coupled with compression strap design is plain idiotic. Gossamer Gear's wide shoulder straps are the thing that's kept me away. Even though that should affect only folks with narrower chest (like me) — it still begs the question why the straps need to be THAT wide to carry a frameless ultralight load?

>Also, the Z1 and the Jam2 (old and new) are very different packs. The Jam2 is overall a beefier pack – it has more volume, tougher fabrics, a sternum strap, a more substantial hip belt, and lots more features.

I have owned and currently own an '07 Jam2 and a Zpacks Zilch w/winged hipbelt and unless the new Jam2 has a different hipbelt than the one I owned, I beg to differ. The Jam2's hipbelt is just a double layer of pack fabric. The Zpacks winged hipbelt is actually a thin layer of foam and feels much more comfortable than just fabric. Unlike the Jam2, Zpacks sizes their hipbelts so they fit onto your hips and can be used for load transfer, which is a plus for me. You can also get them with ultralight sternum straps, though it is a few dollars extra.

On the subject of silnylon packs, although I have no rips or abrasion issues yet with my own silnylon pack and I have put probably a little over 150 miles on it, I do have a silnylon stuffsack that I had to retire due to unexplained holes developing in the bottom. Likely it was abrasion within my pack with something sharp like a spork, but I can't honestly say that I know when or how exactly it happened, which is troubling. I do have several other silnylon stuffsacks that I have used much more than that one which have not gotten unexplained holes in them, though.

I'd like to offer a few positive words about silnylon packs because it seems everybody just dismisses them as flimsey (yet Gosamer Gear makes packs out of spinnaker which is even flimsier), but I figure until I put at least 500 miles on a silnylon pack, I'll withhold judgement. At 150, so far so good, though, and it's not like I bushwack through briars or glissade down granite outcrops very often so I can't conceive of a situation in which the silnylon would be a huge disadvantage over tougher dyneema. Most trails are open anyway.

Art- I have found that (i think) aquamira liquid is causing holes in my spinnaker stuff sack in which it is stored. Im using the mini BPL droppers. cant say for sure if its the A part or the B…
any help?

Ben, thanks for asking. i was indeed a "wannabe" uler in the sense that I knew that I wanted to go light, and had "window shopped" all the lightest stuff that I could find, but recieved the Jam as wedding gift that was on my REI registry. I laughed at the thing at first, didnt know what I was getting into but found soon enough some great gear that worked for me. My first 'real' ul bag was the MH Phantom 32 (800 fill down! wow!) at the time I was estatic to have a pound and a half bag. I then quickly bought an original TT Virga and a BA insul pad. Then the ti pot, then the pocket rocket and so on. So i did things in reverse. but, it worked! it also was a key method in forcing me to leave behind things that I really didnt need (i used to carry a fleece sleeping bag as a "liner" can you imagine! sheesh…)
anyway, that same jam is still with me today. i will not stop using it. nothing has come out since that has impressed me as much. and im not a "brand" loyal type, or label whor as you say. I just think it fits wonderfully, thats all that I can say.
buy hey, why settle for one of anything? get a WM bag or 2 and get a quilt or 2 and buy 5 packs. go nuts, you only live once!

Michael- Ah-ha! That sounds like a very likely culprit. Thanks. I'll definitely keep my aqua mira in a plastic bag from now on.

Noah:

Since some of the other hikers have commented on the ZPacks I thought I would also add my 2 cents worth (though it may not be worth that yet).

I just received my new pack, a ZPack Blast 3200. It's made of Cuben Fiber and I had a few custom changes made. The original pack weight is 4.2 oz and with my modifications it is 6.3 ozs (hip belt, daisy chain, shock cord lashing, one shoulder pocket, one belt pocket). The lashing and pockets are removable.

I have only had the chance to take it out on local day hikes. But it gave me the chance to load it up (to the hilt) and try it out. The Cuben Fiber seems solid and is quiet when I walk. I purchased the larger size (3200 cu in) to accommodate my gear, a tent and the dreaded Bear Vault (when needed). The pack easily handles everything I put into it. When I carry smaller loads I use the shock cord to reduce volume size and roll the top extension down. The pack is well balanced, no matter the load. The shoulder straps are the most comfortable I've had on any pack I've owned. (I've owned the Gregory Z55, REI UL 30, Rei UL Flash day pack, Camelbak day pack)

The only two changes I would make are to add a loop or hook to hold my Platypus Hoser and to add 6 small loops (same as the shock cord loops) at the bottom (3 front, 3 back) so I can further compress the pack at the bottom. This would make the already versatile Blast 3200 even more so for me.

Joe Velasko does quality work and will work with you to customize any pack your way.

Good luck in your quest to find your pack and bag.

Linda

Once I have used the Blast on hiking trips, I will report on its performance.