My new list

[Noah Kirschbaum]

Here check this out I took some of the gear you guys suggested in my previous thread and came up with this.

This list is well over $1000, so if I choose to go a cheaper route I will probibly go Jamie Shortts route.

TREKKING CLOTHES WORN [85.2 oz total ]
____________________________________________________

shoes – montrail HARDROCK = 31.6 [worn]

hiking socks – thin low = 0.6 oz [worn]

gaiters – OR flex-tex low = 4.4 [worn]

hiking pants – patagonia stretch jackalope synthetic = 11.6 oz [worn]

synthetic long sleeve top – Patagonia R1 hoodie = 10.9 [worn]

short sleeve synthetic top – patagonia LW capaline = 4.6 oz [worn]

nylon hiking shorts – simple, no undies = 4.2 oz [worn]

sun hat – nylon baseball style = 1.5 OZ [worn]

sunglasses with retainer – hipster = 1.2 oz [worn]

watch on a string = 0.6 oz [worn]

trekking poles = 14 oz

PACKING [27.4 oz total ]
____________________________________________________

Back Pack – GoLite JAM2 = 21 oz

pack liner – hefty white COMPACTOR bag = 2.4 oz

stuff sacks – only 4 (food, clothes, sleeping bag & cook gear) = less than 4 oz

COOK GEAR [10 oz total ]
____________________________________________________

titanium mug – small MSR = 3.1 oz

mug lid – titanium = 1.1 oz

spoon – short handled BPL titanium = 0.3 oz

stove – white box = 0.8 oz

titanium wind-screen – BPL w/ homemade tyvec holder = 0.4

fuel bottle – lil'nipper platy w/ BPL red squirt tip = 0.6

bear hang cord – approx. 40 feet = 1.9 oz

bic lighter – dinky = 0.4 oz

pot grabbers – auto supply = 1.4 oz

SHELTER [13.4 oz total ]
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shelter – Grace Solo Spectralite = 5.8

titanium stakes – set of 10 = 3.1 oz

ground cloth – scrap of tyvec = 4.5 oz

SLEEPING GEAR [41.4 oz total ]
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sleeping bag – BPL Light UL 60 quilt = 12.8

sleeping pad – therma-rest PRO-lite 3 REG = 20 oz

bivy sack – BPL vapr = 5.8

sleeping socks – short wool blend – 1.7 oz

mr. pillow – dual chamber inflatable = 1.1 oz

CLOTHES CARRIED [59 oz total ]
____________________________________________________

rain pants – GoLite Reed = 6 oz

insulated jacket – Patagonia Micro Puff Hooded Jacket = 21.1 oz [part of sleep system]

rain coat – GoLite Paradigm = 16 oz

wind shirt – GoLite wisp = 3 oz [part of sleep system]

long undies – lightweight synthetic = 7.9 oz [part of sleep system]

warm hat – simple pile = 2.3 oz [part of sleep system]

glove liner – simple thin synthetic = 1.1 oz [part of sleep system]

extra hiking socks – thin low = 1.6 oz

OTHER ESSENTIALS [29.8 oz total ]
____________________________________________________

water bottle – platypus 2 liter size = 1.3 oz

toiletries in a ziploc baggie – less than 4 oz
[note: tooth brush, tooth paste, small knife, compass, Dr. B’s soap, etc.]

water treatment – aqua mira, repackaged = 2.4 oz (enough for a week)

lip balm – tiny = 0.3

sun block – repackaged neutragina 45 = 0.8 oz

bandana – standard= 1.1 oz

headlamp – petzl tikka plus = 2.7 oz

camera – digital w/case = approx 9 oz

misquote head net – simple, no wire, doubles as stuff sack = 0.2 oz

maps – cut down (weight depends on trip) let’s say = less than 4 oz

first aid – simple, minimal = 4 oz

WEIGHT DATA:
____________________________________________________

TREKKING CLOTHES WORN [ 85.2 oz total ]
(not added to BASE weight)

PACKING [ 27.4 oz total ]
COOK GEAR [ 10 oz total ]
SHELTER [ 13.4 oz total ]
SLEEPING GEAR [ 41.4 oz total ]
CLOTHES CARRIED [ 59 oz total ]
OTHER ESSENTIALS [ 29.8 oz total ]
( = )
BASE WEIGHT = 181 oz (11.3 pounds)

Some things that could change:

-No trekking poles (saves $100 and 14 oz)

-Me personally I might wear like compression shorts or something under my pants (I need underwear)

[te – wa]

looks awesome! isnt it great to have a resource such as BPL and books from experienced hikers like Dr. Jordan?
the list, like any is subject to critique. allow me to add my 2¢

gut the Jam pack. you will use your Prolite as a pack frame, either folded or rolled concentrically. You can save 5oz by cutting out the hydro sleeve, the foam pad and some other redundancies. Put the Platy 2L in the side pocket where it fits nicely and buy the Platy hydro kit (cap and hose assembly, $12)

you may ditch the Patty pants and wear the Reed pants. If I understand, the Reeds are fine in warm and dry weather too. I may be wrong.

it is sometimes beneficial to consider your 'pack' as a stuff sack. (after all, thats what it is) and forget all the 4oz of stuff sacks. bring one for your food. you can push your sleeping bag/quilt into the bottom of pack and let it fill in all the gaps. this is preffered, and widely used practice.

if you tarp, you likely need those poles. however, 2 things: first, carbon poles are sometimes cheaper than their heavier aluminum cousins. I snagged a pair of fixed Life Link (great reviews of them on this site) for $45 online.
second, you wont notice much weight difference between the $260 cuben tarp and a $90 sil tarp. My sil tarps were averaging 7oz.

a Black Diamond ION headlamp is an example of a cheaper, lighter alternative. Almost as bright, but only 1oz.

cookpot: imUSA from walmart is $3
spoon: plastic from Wendy's (free)

you dont have to pay retail!!!
if you dont have trip plans until '10 you have plenty of time to shop sales, explore alternatives to $$$ (like the tarp) and buy used from BPL and other forums. I could easily drop your list from $1000 closer to $600. And so can you. peace, mike

[Noah Kirschbaum]

Thank you for your input, there is probibly alot I could do to change this list. I have to years so this list is very likely to be subject to change. The factor of time could also bring the release of new and better gear. Thanks for the idea of buying used gear, as im young and dont have very much money lol.

Thanks again
-Noah-

[Jamie Shortt]

Noah, The list looks like a solid one. A few things to consider… I think the BPL Vapr Bivy is not in stock nor has it been in stock for awhile. The MLD Grace Solo Spectralite is a wildly light choice, if you are going to order from MLD you might want to order a bivy from them too (superlight bivy is a great choice).

The only thing that stands out to me is a discrepency between your insulated garmet and your quilt. You have a cold weather insulating garmet…I'm gonna guess teens+ but a warm weather quilt…50+. Yes you can wear them together as a sleep system, but they are still mismatched in my eyes. I would really recommend a warmer bag. If you think you can go with a quilt then try a Golite Ultra 20. Or if you are only camping in warmer temps them drop some cloths…the Micro Puff for a Montbell Thermal Wrap for example. Maybe others disagree?

Also Jim Colten made some great insights in your previous thread about the gear restrictions for Philmont. Mainly that tarps and alcohol stoves may not be appropriate or allowed. If this is so then you will need to make some changes. I'd hate for you to spend $255 on a Grace Solo tarp and another $165 on a bivy to find out you can't use them.

I did work up a spreadsheet that has a recommended UL list with prices, weights, and place to purchase. It is focused on "value pieces" that can actually be ordered today. The entire list can be purchased using only 3 locations (Walmart, Backcountrygear, and REI). The gear in the list does come in at just over $1100 retail and 6.9 lbs base, but it does include a WM bag and canister stove. If you want the spreadsheet just PM with your email address (or anyone else).

Jamie

[Joe Westing]

If you are buying this gear mainly w/ Philmont in mind, I am almost positive they will only allow fully enclosed shelters (like Jamie mentioned). You should email Philmont though to make sure. This leaves you w/ a choice of a tarptent (such as those from tarptent.com), a mid type shelter (check out mountainlaureldesigns.com), or a lightweight double-wall tent which is the heaviest of the three options. The tarptent would probably not be as bomber as the other 2 options but for Philmont it would do just fine and it would be very liveable. A further consideration is that I believe Philmont requires that there are at least 2 scouts per shelter. This would mean that another scout would have to be o.k. w/ your shelter choice.

I also noticed that you put down the Patagonia R1 hoody as a "trekking clothes worn." I own the R1 Hoody and it is a great piece of clothing but IMO it is WAY to warm for wearing while hiking at Philmont. It would have to be below 35 degrees for the R1 hoody to be comfortable for me to hike in. A LW Patagonia Capilene Long sleeve shirt would be much more comfortable for walking during Philmont cool mornings (typically 40s or 50s). However, instead carrying an extra long sleeve shirt, I recommend simply wearing the wind shirt that you are already bringing while hiking on cool mornings. Although the mornings can be cold, the strong New Mexico sun quickly heats the air up and you will not have to wear the wind shirt for long.

Like Jamie, I suggest you get a warming quilt than the BPL UL 60. Nights at Philmont CAN get down to 30 degrees though they are usually in the 40s. I also think that the Micro Puff Hooded Jacket may be a little bit overkill but not by much. I own the Micro Puff pullover and I am only comfortable in it down the upper 30s. Richard Nisley's analysis comfirms this. Therefore, I doubt that the hooded version would be significantly warmer. It is important at Philmont to have an insulating garmet for wearning around camp – part of the Philmont experience is the social gather-around-the-campfire evenings.

Finally, you may want to consider other lighter, more breathable gaitors for Philmont. I did not bring gaitors and they are certainly not necessary for protecting against the weather. However, I wish I brought the Simblissity LevaGaitors to keep out the dust/rocks that plague Philmont trails. My trip was fairly dry (mainly just afternoon thunderstorms) so YMMV.

Definitely read the BPL article about Philmont. It is extremely useful, especially for lightening the crew gear that Philmont requires.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/boy_scout_gear_list_philmont.html

[Mike Clelland]

Noah,

The summer of '09 is a good time to test your system.

Questions:
======
Where are you?
Do you have camping options nearby?

[Joe Westing]

I believe he is from Iowa.

Even if you can't do a true backpacking trip (which would be optimal), you MUST do some sort of camping w/ the new gear. More so than trad backpacking, UL requires that you be more reliant on experience, knowledge, and good judgement.

I don't mean to be rude by answering for you Noah.

[Noah Kirschbaum]

Well thanks again for all the input, I guess I might of worded myself wrong.I dont mainly want this gear for Philmont, I was just thinking of Philmont as a possible opportunity to try out UL backpacking for real there. Once I get older I would love to go on Some good big trips all over the country.

I plan to buy Lighten up! tonight if possible. Even after all the reading I have done today, Im thinking about giving this list a makeover lol.

Also another question do you guys think I should save up all the money and buy all my gear at once, or do you think I should buy it item by item?

[Angela Zukowski]

I'd recommend buying item by item just because you can find some great deals on individual items by waiting for specific sales or buying used gear.

For example… if I was buying all of my gear at once and wanted to buy the specific Patagonia windshirt I wanted, I would have had to pay $100. It's now being offered for $60 by online retailers. I actually waited for the outlet sale and got it for $40.

Plus, going piece by piece lets you request items as gifts :)

A lot of online retailers offer some pretty good discounts on a regular basis – just sign up for their emails. Same can be said for EMS, REI, Patagonia – mailing lists online will let you know when you can grab things on sale.

Definitely buying used gear through here will save you some money as well. I always check ebay, here, and google before I buy anything – really anal retentive of me but it makes sure I'm not over-paying.

[Jamie Shortt]

Noah,
Im with Angela…buy as you go. Each piece is going to require practice and skill…it would be a lot to have show up all at once. If money is a concern (i.e. you are saving up) then I might reconsider some of your pieces like your tarp. The grace solo in spectralite is probably one of the best, if not the best you can buy and it weighs only 5.8 oz. It costs $255. If you are not an expert in tarp/bivy camping you might want to try an integral designs 5×8 sil tarp first. This tarp works nearly as well as the grace solo (it is the tarp I currently use) and costs $60 on sale ($75 retail). It weighs 6.5 oz. You can learn a lot with this tarp.

If you are sure about tarping and getting the extra $190 wont take much extra time then by all means go for the grace solo. I've made 2 purchases from MLD and I think they are the absolute best items I own. One day I'll probably get a grace solo, but for now I am not going to hold off getting to the woods waiting for the money:)

Jamie

[Noah Kirschbaum]

Sure I will get it as I go, that way I can take certain items on my boy scout campouts and test them out by themselves so I can gain knowledge about the items as I go. The more I think about it, it sounds pretty stupid for me to go out with all new gear all at once knowing nothing about it.

Im checking you spread sheet out right now, it is a great list and is probibly the list im gonna start buying gear from. Thanks for that Jamie.

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