Considering a Nunatak Raku

>Why not just wear them as down pants all the time?

If you are comfortable wearing them all the time then they will be not be warm enough for sleeping (and conversely). You will need extra insulation for sleeping. The idea behind Raku is the simplicity -just one high loft garment from active to sleeping by adjusting ventilation and coverage.

I have only read parts of it from Google Books "preview". It has good some really great sections and is a excellent reference.

Also checkout psychovertical.com

Huzefa: How about this for a multi-use garment: a Raku that has been modified like that convertible half-bag you referred to, and also deliberately designed so that the opened legs can be rolled up and secured, making the resulting garment a parka. Sun shirts often allow one to roll up the sleeves and tab them down, so one ends up with a short-sleeve shirt. [MODE ONE:] You would probably want to start the roll-up process with the zippers completely open, leaving the “legs” as flat panels. Them roll them up and secure them in waterproof flaps. You would then have a semi-normal parka. [MODE TWO:] Roll the flat panels down, and zip the top of the left leg to the top of the right leg (that half-bag has the zippers on the insides of the legs), and zip the bottom of the left leg to the bottom of the right leg, leaving a bag-like bottom, like the stock Raku is. This allows you to wear down booties, (see Nunatak’s down mukluks that cover the calf) inside the Raku, and to put in a water bottle and camera, etc. which you can’t do very easily with regular down pants. [MODE THREE:] Zip the flat panels into legs, and climb for the summit in a blizzard.

I have thought about this.

Ok now consider this: warmest pants I know of -Nunatak Torre Bibs have 1.5" loft and 11oz fill. FF Expedition Down suit has 26oz fill and I suspect 1.5" loft.

From Hal Weiss's Secrets of Warmth:
Effective Temp Sleeping Light Work Heavy Work
-50F 4.0" 2.1" 0.52"

So far my argument against it was that it will be too warm for pants even though the only extra weight is a zipper. But climbing summit in blizzard? You have a point there :)

You have summarized well all the ideas discussed here.

I think Mode 2 will be very drafty so extra fabric will be required to seal the bottom.

Now the cost:

Torre Bibs and Jacket cost $1150 and are less warm then this design. FF expedition suit costs $950. I am not sure if nunatak or FF will make you this under $1000. Why should they?

I'm not worried about the price, because I'm just day-dreaming, and I'm not in imminent danger of starting an expedition. Do you have access to Everest videos, thru a library or other? I do, and I've noticed that the earlier expedition members often wore a combo of down pants and parka, but nowadays everyone wears a full body suit on summit day, and often before that.

lol

I am more focused on Denali right now. For one thing it will be cheaper then Everest and second it isnt really technical.

So have you climbed Denali? or planning anytime soon?

I haven't climbed either one, but my impression is that Acancaugua (as you know, one of the 7 summits) is a better first big mountain than Denali. Although A is about 2,000 feet higher, since it is more southerly, the air is thicker (so I've heard) than the average air density on Denali, hence the EFFECTIVE height is not all that much higher. I have seen several videos of A ascents, and there is always very little snow; the climbers don't even use crampons on the thin snow trails that do exist, a lot of the time. There can be vicious, vicious wind storms on A, but D is the coldest mountain on earth, since it is so close to the North Pole. Everest ia about the same latitude as Miami, but it is more difficult for the human body to generate heat the higher it goes and the less oxygen to oxidize food, and the Jet Stream sometimes drops right down on top of E.

I took the plunge this morning…0*F Custom Raku is on it's way. Thanks to Richard for sending those pics…great help in my decision.

Wow Steve! That's one mega purchase. It will be good to see the finished result.

That's one mega purchase

Yeah…I had to sell a bunch of my gear – and more to sell still. I filled the order form in 3 days ago, just got the nerve to press submit this morning. My hands are still shaking. ;)

I'll post pics when I get it – I think mid august is about right for delivery.

If you really want something, you should try and go for it. It will always bother you otherwise. That's how my mind works anyway.
The Raku looks great, but unfortunately i can't make Scotland cold enough to think about buying one. :)

Hahaha
I know exactly what you are talking about (having your finger hovering over the ‘submit’ button…)
My Raku is still my best piece of gear. Nothing more enjoyable than hearing your partners grumble when getting out of their bags while you just pop your feet out of the bottom and go about your tasks still nice and warm. Looking forward to hearing how it works for you.
Now the second hardest part, the wait……

Now the second hardest part, the wait……

it's already killing me ;) But I ordered early so it wouldn't be a rush to get for the winter.

Have you noticed any wear on the shoulder seams. I was looking at your pictures and it seems that since the weight of the raku sits atop your head, the seams at the top of the shoulders are looking a little stressed…just curious how they are holding up.
With a black epic shell, 3.5" baffles and 12 ounces of overfill it's going to weigh probably over a pound heavier then the standard…you foresee any issues? Other then a stiff neck of course ;)

I find that 90% of the time I have my head out and then it sits more on my shoulders. When I have my head in, it is usually when sitting down and not moving around so you do not notice it. When you double it up to your waist it should be interesting to see how big it will be with the extra loft you will have on yours. You might have to be careful and not fall down as you might not be able to get back up. (picture one of those sumo suits….)

Good god Steve. I'd love to participate in some testing this winter. I'll be the control…

Hey Steve! Did you get your Raku yet? I've been seriously considering one, would love to hear your thoughts after you get yours! Since I'm no mountaineering soul, I'd stay with a standard Raku.

Doug

Hey Doug,
I'm still waiting on the Raku…I thought it would have been here by now, but I haven't been bugging Tom as I don't need it yet. I'll send him an e-mail in the next few weeks if it doesn't show up. I'll definitely let you know how it works out.
Steve

Thanks Steve!

Guess what showed up on my door this afternoon? That's right, the 0*F Raku is in the house!

Don't have time to try it on this moment, but I'll get around to it in the coming days and post some pics.

Of course, I DID have time to weigh it…56.4 oz. (13 oz of overfill) in Black Epic.

Very cool! I ended up ordering one as well. I hope to have it within the next two weeks. We'll be twins! (Though you'll be the bigger twin, as I got a 20 degree!). One of the interesting ways (to me, anyway) that I'm going to try it is in my hammock, with my new TM-made cuben quilt as an underquilt! I'll bet I get that hammock down to near 0 with that combo!

I think it would work well in a hammock. Years ago (and I'm talking years!) I tried a hammock out for a while and I remember that getting in my sleeping bag was a bit tricky. A quilt obviously fixes that problem, but the Raku is even better!

I guess the standard one can be delivered a little faster. Mine took over 4 months for this beast to arrive. I was going crazy. ;)

Can't wait to see the pics. I also am looking forward to trying mine out in my new hammock this winter.

I am seriously jealous, but look forward to living vicariously through you guys ;)

Just a few quick ones I took today…I'll get some better ones on the weekend and see how mobile I can be in this thing.

Chillin'

Torso Section

Plenty of loft.

I wish i had that… I would use thing year round :)
it looks like its tuff as nails.