New ultralight 1 person tents for 2009?

Darren,
I recently purchased a Photon and it was right on for weight.

Somewhere on the tent is a tag with model and year. If that matches your expectations call the vendor, explain your concerns, and have them weight a couple they have in stock.

And if you're dealing with a reputable vendor you should be able to return it if it's not up to spec.

And just so you know – if you pitch it in dry fine sand it will gain a few more ounces just from static cling.

I have had much worse condensation in my old double-wall tent (Sierra Designs Clip Flashlight) than I ever have in a single-wall. Because of the outward slanting screen door, the vestibule had to be closed up tight even in the merest drizzle. As a result, there was horrendous condensation on the underside of the fly, which leaked through into the inner tent, leaving puddles on the floor and on my sleeping bag.

My experience with Henry Shires' Tarptents in the past three years is that even in horrendously damp conditions I haven't had as much nearly condensation as in that SD tent. And if the worst comes to the worst, the single wall tent can easily be wiped down, while the underside of the fly on a double-wall tent will remain dripping wet until you take the tent down and shake the fly.

I believe that the amount of ventilation, rather than the number of walls, is the key to fighting the condensation battle.

Having used many double and single wall tents in areas of high rainfall and high humidity I know that copious condensation can occur in both types. The number of walls certainly doesn't make a difference. However in a double wall tent the inner walls should stay dry so that it's easier to keep condensation off your gear and yourself. Of course the tent has to be designed properly. I haven't used the SD Clip Flashlight but from the description it's a poor design for wet weather. I've used double wall tents where the flysheet door overhangs the inner so rain falls straight into the inner if the door is open. This is a bad design but not a flaw in all double wall tents. Just last weekend I camped in a double wall tent in steady rain. Because the inner door was vertical and not overhung by the flysheet door and there was a vent cover over the top of the flysheet door zip I was able to leave the flysheet door open without any rain getting into the inner. This also allowed steam from boiling water to escape and gave me a view – albeit a somewhat grey and hazy one due to the weather. By morning the inside of the flysheet was soaked with condensation but the inner was dry as was my down sleeping bag.

Ventilation is the best answer to condensation but even that does not always work. In still humid weather I've had condensation dripping on me from a tarp pitched as a lean-to with the back a foot off the ground. The problem in the usually wet and windy places I regularly camp is that vents need to be closed to keep out the weather, resulting in much condensation. I find double-wall tents the best for coping with that, with pyramid style floorless single wall tents the next best.

This is not to say that double wall tents are best everywhere. They certainly aren't. I used a tarp on the Arizona Trail and on a five week High Sierra trip – a double wall tent would not only have been unnecessary weight but also less enjoyable to use. But in the Scottish Highlands where I'm often inside the shelter with all doors and vents closed due to the wind and rain a double wall tent is very comfortable and efficient.

Chris, you are so right about the tent design–if there's an outward slanting door (lots of "standard" tents, at least here in the US, have those; it's one way the manufacturers try to reduce the weight) that you can't leave open most of the time, the tent is going to be condensation heaven (the opposite place for the occupants). So make sure the door is vertical, not sloping, when you select amy type of tent.

To borrow from the thread on your excellent recent article about gear for long, cold rains: If I were going back to a double-wall tent, I'd definitely want one in which the outer fly can be pitched first when it's raining. Again, this is not a common feature for US-made tents; in fact I've never encountered one. Back in my double-wall tent days, I tried laying the fly over the inner tent and crawling under it to set the poles, but the inner tent still got wet inside and I usually ended up with rain down my neck while attempting these gyrations. At least with a single-wall tent, it's a lot easier to keep the inside dry when pitching in a rain.

Hey Ben,
Have you ever considered selling your 2P with a GUARANTEED delivery date? You could probably get $600 easy and have cash to satisfy your lust for new GEAR. ;}
Initial feedback on the Scarp 1 is going to have to wait until the weather returns to its usual civilized self up here. It's been "No Country for Old Men" up here lately. Stay tuned-it's at the top of my list

hi Mary

> I believe that the amount of ventilation, rather than the number of walls, is the key to fighting the condensation battle.

Utterly so.

cheers

Hi Chris

> I've used double wall tents where the flysheet door overhangs the inner so rain falls straight into the inner if the door is open. This is a bad design

Correction: it isn't even a 'design'. It's just totally inept incompetence.

Cheers

> Correction: it isn't even a 'design'. It's just totally inept incompetence.

Sounds like you would take major issue with the Seedhouse 1 then…

We all have our own preferences (which is why 'choice' is such a good thing) — and to me, BA's fly design serves my needs brilliantly.

Here's the way I look at it:

1. Rain — If it's raining, I can ready myself — then open up the fly, get inside, and close up the fly in mere seconds. So 7 raindrops made it into the inner tent. No big deal. I'll just wipe them up — takes me 2 seconds.

2. Condensation — As I and others have written already — there is no tent that will always be free of condensation. However, the Seedhouse has performed marvelously well in the 'condensation department' over the last 5 years of 3+ season usage — and I know there are many other enthusiastic owners out there as well. If the design is 'flawed', then the Seedhouse and other similar tents should have become 'tent dinosaurs' long ago — but obviously they haven't.

3. Benefits — So the disadvantages are pretty minimal to nonexistent — buy why even have them? Well, the Seedhouse 2 SL weighs just under 3 lbs — which is pretty darn light for a freestanding double-wall tent! Inept design? Just compare its weight with tents that "boast" an added brow pole and vestibule overhang — like the ones from Sierra Designs or TNF, etc. Those tents weigh a pound or even more than the Seedhouse! For me, I am just not willing to carry an extra half pound or pound (or even more) for 8-10 hours — day in and day out — rain or shine — every time I hike — just so I can have a drier entry! I'll just take the extra 2-3 seconds to wipe the 7 extra raindrops, thank you.

Stating the obvious, almost everything in tent design is an exercise in compromises — a balancing act. So pick your poison.

> Sounds like you would take major issue with the Seedhouse 1 then…

In bad weather – yep. No apologies.

Cheers

I tested a Seedhouse 2 in Scottish conditions a few years ago and I did have condensation dripping through the mesh inner at times. However I also found that as the flysheet doesn't come down to the ground there was a better air flow and less condensation than in tents with down to the ground flysheets. This in turn had two other disadvantages – cold winds blew under the edge of the flysheet and through the mesh at times making the tent quite cold and heavy rain could bounce up under the flysheet when pitched on hard ground though the high groundsheet walls prevented most of this from entering the tent. Due to the sloping inner door there isn't much space for cooking safely in the porch when the outer door is closed, which it has to be in rain. Overall I thought the tent okay for areas with light rainfall and low humidity but not ideal for the Scottish Highlands.

Chris> I've used double wall tents where the flysheet door overhangs the inner so rain falls straight into the inner if the door is open. This is a bad design

Roger>Correction: it isn't even a 'design'. It's just totally inept incompetence.

I think the design is historical and dates back to when the flysheet was an optional extra that was thrown over the tent when necessary. As Mary says US tents are mostly of this design. I'd never seen one in Britain until the first North Face tents arrived here in the 1980s.

Chris:
Are you able to make a suggestion on designs superior to the Seedhouse for a 1-person double-wall 3-season tent?

Shane,
My favourite for many, many years has been the Hilleberg Akto, in which I've spent hundreds of nights and used on a 3/12 month walk in the Scottish Highlands. For wet, windy weather it's superb. Whilst it was ultralight when introduced in the early 90s it is heavier than alternatives now. The Terra Nova Laser Competition is lighter weight and a similar design. It's not as stable though.

As I've read your book, I knew you were going to say that. :) (I gave it an excellent review on Goodreads.com as well.)

For the Terra Nova, I have read that it is stifling at temperatures over 70F or so. As I live in the mid-atlantic US, I see temperatures ranging from 20F to 90F during the year, so something that has great ventilation is key for me for summer use.

Thanks for the review, Shane.

I imagine the Akto would be stifling at 90F as well if you had to close the doors. Does it rain when it's 70-90F? For temperatures like that I'd be inclined to use a tarp.

However you mentioned bugs earlier, which is a problem in Scotland in summer. I'd rather be too hot than be driven mad by midges. I have at times sealed myself into the Akto on nights when the temperature was in the 60s and it was very warm. For dealing with heat and bugs I'd probably go for a roomy tent with a mesh inner like the GoLite Shangri-La 2 or 3.

As a past owner/user of a Akto I would agree that this is a design well worth consideration. If looking today for such a shelter I would personaly look to the new TT Scarp 1. It takes the proven Akto design concept to a new level IMO.

Yes, we can get rain at those temperatures. Summers here can be very humid, but we also get massive amounts of bugs during the summer months. Thus I would need a tarp or tarp-tent with a bug netting. Basically I'm just trying to get the best all-around tent I can get until I decide to branch out to more shelters. I'll probably wait on the new Big Agnes design, as it looks like a lighter and maybe superior Seedhouse design.

Pick the right tool for the job at hand.

I suspect Roger has never used the Seedhouse. Having said that, I haven't used the Akto either — so some of this is just us talking gear and enjoying it.

Being a happy Seedhouse owner, I would NOT use it for winter camping — with freezing cold winds blowing — just as I would not use single-wall tarptents for same. These are tents meant for three-season use.

By the same token, reading the many user feedback, while the Akto is delightful (meaning both robust and lightweight) for normal winter use — it is suboptimal for warm, humid summer use. Its double-wall design, its use of 'solid' fabric inner, along with its "winter design" where the fly reaches all the way down to the ground — all can make this a warm and uncomfortable tent for summer use.

For three season use, do you really want to drastically cut your living space — a nylon coffin really — without saving any weight and subject yourself to potentially warm / uncomfortable nights? And for what?

If you are not a "space hog" like me and don't mind a smaller but still perfectly adequate interior space, then I heartily agree that the upcoming Big Agnes is well worth a look (and wait).

Finally, if you are looking for the one tent that can "do it all" with minimal compromises — good luck. Much more likely, given the wide, wide differences in temps and terrain, etc. — you will end up like the rest of us — buying multiple gear pieces — tents included. :)

> For three season use, do you really want to drastically cut your living space — a nylon coffin really — without saving any weight and subject yourself to potentially warm / uncomfortable nights? And for what?

What are you referring to when you say nylon coffin? The new BA Fly Creek, or a tarptent? I definitely want something in the Seedhouse 1 size, which the Fly Creek appears to be modeled on.

Shane:

Nylon coffin is obviously a loaded term, and a subjective one. I was referring to the Akto. Sure, it has an adequately wide midsection — but the ends are narrow (I believe only 24 inches — or barely 4 inches wider than the width of a standard sleep pad). Not an issue for some, but small for others.

I've never heard the Akto called a nylon coffin before! One reason I like it is because it's roomy for the weight. I don't like tents without room for a comfortable evening and night in bad weather – and I've tested two this year like that. I don't think the narrow ends of the Akto are a problem unless you are very tall – it is 87" long after all – but the height might be for six footers.

All that said I wouldn't choose the Akto except for wet and windy weather and exposed sites. It's overkill for milder conditions.

Denis-
Sorry for the delay in answer–I tend to be on the forums at work, and had yesterday off. In short, I just got off the phone with Big Sky and they said they do have an Evo 2P porch fly available. Pricing is $239.95 for fly (and pole) only; whole tent is $389.95 if you wanted to go that way. Both are in stock. Let me know if you're interested! Cheers-

I still don’t get the view Chris of the Terra Nova Laser Competition being not as stable as an Akto. It is designed to flex and give in harsh winds. So there is no point comparing it as the design is different. Too many people have used them in awful conditions and they are standing in the morning with no damage. Peter McFarlane has had his on Munro Summits in the most horrendous conditions and the tent is there in the morning fine. I use at the moment the bigger Laser and it is as good as the Akto any day in a storm. The Laser range of tents is superb and the Akto is very expensive now and heavy for the size (low head room of 90cm) and needs to be updated. The porch is over rated as it is wide at one point and cuts back at a sharp angle so the space along the length is reduced to nothing. Not the super tent it is often made out to be.

Martin, I prefer a tent that lets me sleep comfortably in strong winds, which means not flapping and flexing too much. I know the Laser Competition stays up in strong winds but it's movement makes it unstable compared with the Akto. Stability is not just about whether a tent is still standing in the morning.

I find the porch perfect so wouldn't agree it's over-rated. I can store my pack, boots and wet gear on the closed side and cook on the door side. What more could I want?

The Akto is a superb tent. Without it there wouldn't even be the Laser tents. The Laser tents are good too. I have recommended them in the past. I just find the Akto better.

Of course it's a matter of personal choice which tent you prefer and if someone finds the Laser better than the Akto then for them it is. The Akto is better for me.

For three season use — there are just too many other options that are at once bigger, lighter and better ventilated than the Akto. Will the Akto do the job? I am sure it will — but I don't see the superlatives within.

For winter use — and I am only reading here — legions of users praise it because of its adequate living and vestibule space and because of its high wind resistance — all for very little weight (for a winter tent). However, I've also read that it's broadly slanting tops make it very much suboptimal for wet, heavy snowfalls

Chris (and other Akto users) — is the above re. heavy and wet snowload completely unfounded?