My clothing gear list for upcoming winter trip

David,

That looks like a pretty comfortable clothes list for your anticipated conditions. I see a couple of places that some weight could be saved with no loss of function.

The pants at 17.6 oz could be replaced with BPL's Thurofare pants at 4 oz. The way I look at it is the baselayer does the insulation and the nylon pants are simply to protect the baselayer from snags, abrasion and moisture.

The other weigh saving swap might be the rain jacket at 12.5 oz. I have a TNF Diad that weighs 8.9 oz (size Large). Neither of these jackets are cutting edge so no loss of function. The Diad does have pit zips.

I have two kids (grown-ups) that live in Texas and I've been thinking about hooking up with them for a jaunt through the Big Bend. Have fun!

Hey David-
Looks pretty good. I wouldn't plan on wearing the heavyweight base layer; most likely you'll be plenty hot in the mid while hiking. I'd consider a lightweight shell mitt. Can make a big difference w/fleece, potential wetness, etc. Might want to pack a bit o' duct tape for the Driducks. Cheers-

What area of Big Bend? Chisos, desert (specific), or river?

I have never needed liners with Smartwools, even the Heavyweights. But everyone's feet are different.

Are you going to be wearing the REI MTS Mid/Heavy tops at the same time or is it an option?

Cut out the heavy weights and just take the mids

Swap the Dome Perignon for a Micro Dome and Power stretch balaclava. Much more versatility

I have never been a fan of the R1 because it doesn't offer much insulation and you can not vent it. Instead of the down jacket and R1 I would have went with something like the R2 or a light insulated jacket which with the Mid and rain jacket will keep you warm while moving. When it reaches 20F at night go to sleep.

Just bring two liners socks and one heavy because if you layer the two liners they act as a heavy.

If you need mitt liners to keep them dry, just bring some plastic bread bags. Cheap and they probably will not get that much use due to it not raining all the time.

Great park. Its vast and knowing where will help. OTOH once you get there you can check the weather then set your route to match your clothes. I expect only go clothing and stop clothing due to lack of daylight. I've spent a lot of time in the sleeping bag there in winter.

Upper body worn
-1 base

Upper body packed
-R1 Flash Pullover = 10.1 oz
-Mountain Hardwear Phantom down jacket = 16.2 oz
-REI Ultralight rain jacket = 12.5 oz

Gloves worn
skip the gloves
keep the mitts or reverse

Lower body
Not be warm enough for convertibles. Even in summer not needed unless in the humid valley. If you have a decent DWR I think you could skip the rain pants.

Lower body packed
you could carry puffy pants for the weight of a heavy base.

Socks worn
-Smartwool liner socks = ?

Socks packed
-Smartwool heavyweight socks = 3.5 oz

Thanks for the replies.

Michael:
I'd swap the pants, but I like my MH Pack pants and they're worn at all times, so it doesn't affect my pack weight. I have been thinking about replacing my REI Ultralight (it wets out frequently), but right now I don't have the cash nor time. I was thinking about going with one of the eVENT ones by Integral Designs.

Brad:
During my winter trip last year, I wore the midweight during the day when the sun was out, but there were times when the wind kicked up (60 mph) and the temps dropped into the 30s in the daytime. With these conditions, the midweight wasn't quite enough, even with the rain shell. However, I'm thinking of dropping the heavweight and justing wearing the R1 or vice-versa. However, I'm not sure if that'll be enough.

Adam:
Going to Chisos (as high as possible), not sure where. Any suggestions? My main concern is water sources (or lack thereof). I would only wear the MTS mid and heavy top at the same time if the temps dropped into the 40s or 30s and it was windy. However, I'm thinking maybe I can lose one. Maybe a wool base layer instead of the MTS mid would help?

Brett:
Do you mean cut out the heavy weight socks? I think I'll stick with an insulated jacket for rest stops or camp. I've thought about an R2 but I feel that it is too warm while moving and not warm enough for camp. What would you use for insulation instead of the down? As far as socks, I'm doubling up on everything so I have a dry pair–although I'm considering leaving the liners behind. I can tell you that last year my feet were cold (at least when standing still), and I was wearing heavyweight Smartwool socks with full leather gore-tex boots.

Jeremy:
Will be in the Chisos Mts. If wearing only one baselayer, what would you select? Maybe wool would provide a broader comfort range? As far as baselayer pants, which synthetic fill would you use? I'm wearing the convertibles only b/c this is the only pair of pants I own. I don't expect to unzip the legs. I think I'll keep both pairs of gloves–my hands were cold last year (in Guadalupe Mtns) when wearing the liners with REI fleece gloves over that–hence the OR mitts.

David,

Chisos are wonderful. It depends on how much mileage you want to do and how many days you have. If you are experienced with navigation and route-finding and have three days, do the Outer Mountain Loop with a detour to the South Rim coming in. If you are looking for a shorter trip, do the Rim. If you do the latter, I recommend spending the night at SW4 if possible. Beautiful vista close to camp with a tremendous sunset. Also, if you get up early enough you can hump it further east and catch a beautiful desert sunrise.

As far as water is concerned, don't count on it. Carry what you need. I was there three weeks ago and there was water in the Boot Canyon area, but it is all standing water in pools fed by runoff and what little precipitation occurs in the park. If you choose to do the Outer Mountain Loop, cache 1.5 gallons at the Homer Wilson Ranch. This will save you some weight for the first two days.

I would not bring any rain pants unless you are using them for wind protection. Nothing is certain (p=1), but I would put p=.998 that you do not see any precipitation. The Chisos typically receives the most of any of the park, but this time of year it is rare.

Double up the headwear. Balaclava/beanie > beanie.

Leave the mitts at home and put your extra pair of socks over your hands if you can't stand the cold any more (pockets also work). Also, the Guadalupe mountains are typically colder than Big Bend, so don't extrapolate too much.

A wool top probably will not make much difference if the heat loss is convective. I prefer a windshirt like the Montbell UL Wind Jacket for windy conditions. Frequently, it is my only rain protection during Big Bend excursions.

Frequently, the temperature during the day is consistently warm. Temperature drops during sunlight hours are rare. I think you will be fine with just the REI MTS Mid and a windproof supplement for time spent hiking. In fact, you will be hot if you double up.

Finally, check the moon phase and times. Try to go during a new moon. West Texas stars are a sight to behold.

David,
Looks like several of the questions got covered. I still haven't upgraded to puffy pants. I don't plan to camp much colder than your trip so I am choosing between 1.8-2.5oz/sy fill.

Wind has been mentioned but could be further emphasized. It is dry enough to be comfortable in a membrane. Consider for hands as well.

Adam:

How warm do you expect daily temps to get to if I am around 6000' in the dead of winter? (I will be going between Christmas and New Year's). If it is sufficiently warm, I will wear the midweight MTS top for hiking during the daytime and then add the R1 or heavyweight MTS top if it gets cold. Down jacket reserved for camp–in fact, I'm thinking of trading the Phantom for a WM Flight to cut more ounces.

I think I'll drop the Driducks pants if no rain is in the forecast. Any ideas on reviving the DWR on my trail pants?

Just as a comparison, my kit for the Colorado Rockies this summer was a lightweight MTS short-sleeve for daytime, lightweight MTS long-sleeve when it cooler, and a heavyweight MTS long-sleeve for camp. REI Silk for leg insulation. The temps ranged from mid-30s at night to 80 degrees in the daytime and I was perfectly fine with this system.

BTW, how do you guys think the REI heavyweight MTS compares to the R1 in terms of insulative value. The heavweight MTS feels like a 100-wt fleece. It is a fraction of an ounce lighter than the R1 and feels just as thick (if not thicker). I am wondering if my money on the R1 was ill-spent.

Should I be thinking about a synthetic fill jacket instead such as the Montbell ThermaWrap (9 oz)?

Also, what are your thoughts on lower leg insulation for this trip?

Highs in the Chisos in winter typically range from 65-40. Right now, highs are in the mid 60s, even approaching 70. The sun is the warmth, so if you are expecting cloud cover expect it to be much colder. If you rest in the shade, you will also cool down very quickly. An easily accessible warm layer is valuable if you plan long breaks.

Lows are around 25-30, but they can dip into the high teens if a cold front has just passed through.

No idea on the DWR. I never mess with the stuff.

Big Bend is great for down because of the lack of rain. Humidity is also low, unless there is a large temperature drop during the night (overnight cold front). I always bring my Cocoon Pullover in the winter to supplement my 32* bag and wear around camp. This is the only high-loft insulation I own though.

The sun sets before 6 and the temperatures plummet. I bring some Integral Designs PLQ Pants to wear around camp because I don't want to go to sleep yet. These also supplement my 32* bag. I generally sit out and watch the stars until I get too cold. Then, I jump in my sleeping bag and watch the stars some more.

Weather forecasts on most weather sites are not very valuable for the Big Bend area. Look at the park "Daily Report" on the NPS website. Also, check the Chisos weather station that links from the same page.