Synthetic Jacket for sleep with Half bag??

Mike,

Don't get your hopes up too high about the PipeDream. IIRC it's been out of stock for over a year now. I'm PRETTY sure that the New Year that they expect stock was 2008. Drop Alpkit a line and ask them.

Rod

i emalied them…wait and see. Any other value options? (the good stuff from Nunatak is just quite expensive for my limited use of this specific system…i Do have a custom Alpinist which i like alot..
M

I just bought a new 3/4 bag from Wildthings to repalce my 20+ year old Chouinard one. This is my second purchase from WT and I WILL be buying from them again, NO question!

Check their website and buy one of their Pl. jackets and that should meet your needs. The quality is superb, equal to the finest I have seen from anyone and they are very nice to deal with.

Surprisingly, Western Mountaineering has a relatively inexpensive half bag–the Tamarack. Weighs 19 ounces, has a full zip around footbox to use blanket-like in warmer weather. Rated 30*, but has a ton of loft. Cost? $190.

I don't think your synthetic jackets would be warm enough for sleeping; compare the loft of that/those with the loft of a summer sleeping bag. Personally I'd go for a puffier top layer. I'm surprised at how many people throw on puffy insulation over rain jackets during storms. Never have. I'd change your system a hair and get a light down jacket. Without change, a warmer or layered synthetic. YMMV.

Michael,

I went through this thought process about a half bag, and ended up with a flexible system relying on both down and synthetic insulation. It works for me- YMMV.

I opted for a Rab Top Bag and a TiGoat Ptarmigan Bivy, and sleep in my Patagonia Micro Puff Jersey. I've slept in this to 0° Celsius, about your target. The trick is to follow what Rab suggest, and cut a sleep mat to fit inside the bag. I did this with a RidgeRest, and don't have any sensation of draughts. To increase warmth, I sleep in Icebreaker long johns and an Icebreaker Mondo Zip.

I also take along an MLD 2Thirds Quilt of primaloft insulation, to throw on top when it's really cold. I can curl up and be totally covered by the bag and the quilt- toasty. If it gets too hot, I just toss away the quilt. The quilt also protects the down against condensation or dew. I also wear a wool beanie and warm sox.

If temperatures vary on the trip, I have a flexible system to suit. I used to use a 3 season bag that weighed the same as all of this, and never had a comfortable night in it- I always woke up sweating and clammy. Everybody's different, though.

I have slept in down bags for 20 years and never got one wet. Just use a heavy duty garbage bag for everything that needs to stay dry in the pack.

Weights:
Rab Top Bag- 476g
TiGoat Bivy- 165g
MLD Quilt- 264g
RidgeRest- 202g
Long johns- 133g
Mondo Zip- 200g
Micro Puff- 323g

The last three are multi use- I usually wear them in camp and let my hiking clothes dry or air when I've set up for the night. I usually camp at 2000- 2500m, to give you an idea of the climate and location I use this system.

I hope this helps.
cheers,
fred

At present in SE USA have down to 35 degrees comfortably used a single layer 5 ounce Climashield XP 2/3 quilt made by Tim marshall similar to the MLD style at 62 inches long, 50 inches wide top, 36 inches bottom weighing 15.7 ounces WITH BMW Coccon jacket in large( 9.5 ounces). This in single wall( TT Rainbow) tarp tent. Am warm sleeper, w/the jacket/quilt wear Patagonia 2s tops/bottoms at those temps. Thing could do down to 30 degrees or so w/this combo. The quilt comes up to my n'pples.

The Alpkit Pipedream 200 is a waist/chest height bag, rather than a top bag.

It's a nice design with an integrated single layer vest to go over your jacket, helping to eliminate draughts, and prevent it slipping down.

Cost is around US $100, weight is 460g (Generally Alpkit weigh 10 production models and take the average), fill is 200g of 750 EU spec down (?800 US?)

http://www.alpkit.com/shop/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16329&category_id=253

Indeed there are many ways to go about this. My main concern with top bag or quilt alone is that some people say it takes more care to control drafts and you cannot sit in them – cause you either have a pad built into them (like the RAB) or if you sit in a quilt your back is exposed.

Rob – do you actually have the ALpkitPD200? if so how is it?
Dewey – i looked at the WTG – but it seemed quite heavy for my needs (30F) how low did you go with it and with what type of clothing?
Well there is also the WM Tamarak and OMM PA1 and others…
Brad – why do you think something like RAB belay that has 300g Primaloft combined with my Monatne Prism2 that has about 180g PL and maybe with a nice baselayer and balaclava and long johns??? of course in cloder weather i could add down/PL pants and puffier jacket. All i was saying about the down jacket is that since it also serves as my walikng/rest jacket it could be compromised in wet weather (say like scotland) and thus i would tent to take a PL jacket….but of course i could use down just for the sleep layered on my PL light jacket
Hard for me to figure out exactky how much weight/loft of PL i will need for 30F comfort….any ideas there (it hard for me to test since i live in really warm climate and 30F happens here like once a year or so)
John – how do you cope with the top bag issues (like sitting up in it?)…i do think thou the quilt as an extra is a great idea …very flexible.
M

Hi Michael,

If I need to sit up, then I just slide out half way, or all the way and drape the MLD Quilt on my legs for warmth. It is also big enough to go over my shoulders and cover me completely if I sit crossed legged. Not really an issue, I've found. Most of the time, I'm lying down, giving my legs a rest, or sleeping.

I hope this helps.
cheers

I just bought my WTG "elephant's foot", got it last week, so, have not had it out as yet. Based on my previous, lighter Chouinard version and with my ID hooded Dolomiti jacket, I would expect an easy 0*F and maybe -10*F inside one of my bivies; this is required for winters here in BC.

I prefer GOOD down bags/gear for real cold weather use, Valandre and WM are my favoured brands of what I currently have, but, for cool, wet situations, also very common here, I go with Primaloft. I tend to prefer gear with a "built-in" safety margin in temp. capabilities in case I need it if injured when you do not cope with cold as well and thus the WTG bag is ideal for me.

How about a half quilt? Upper portion will be a jacket, so no drafts to worry about, and bottom portion a quilt – Nunatiak Arc AT and Skaha Plus. I haven't "officially" taken this system down to 0*C (~30*F) but I pretty sure I've been there. I can say with a medium weight baselayer (and Montbell SI Pad) I have comfortably slept to 5*C. Not saying you have to get this exact combo, because it's a bit pricey, but a half quilt and jacket is really versatile. An MLD XP quilt with a thermawrap is probably a nice synthetic solution for about $300.

If it gets too warm, I sometimes just drape the jacket over me, or even just sleep without it (think hot summer night).

Thanks guys! indeed there are quite a few options here.
I have also noticed the 3/4 quilts….hmmm (btw nice photo steve- looks real cozy – but thats like a $700 right there!)
And i also think i'm starting to understand your way of thinking john – basically what your saying is (maybe) this:
if i need to take an extra jacket that i will not use other than for sleeping – then i might as well take another sleeping bag!
So that means (looking from another angle) that the 3/4 quilt +micropuff are one layer where you are saying "i will use the micro puff for camp or rest stops so its dual use, and the quilt might be used to sit around camp in cold. Then if its a bit colder than that you could add another jacket and down pants, but ostensibly what you are saying is that since you will not really be wearing them other than sleeping they will not be dual use hence take a top bag….is that sort of the logic?

M

Michael,

I think so.

Seriously, yes it is. Multiple variations of insulation to suit the conditions and what you are doing.

Basically it is a two layer sleep/ wear system- nothing new here, usually people take a synthetic insulating layer they can wear, ie a primaloft/ climashield insulating jacket and pants. Outside of this goes a top bag, or a lighter weight full length down or synthetic quilt for sleeping, rated to suit the conditions expected.

I take a jacket and quilt. The quilt above the top bag doesn't weigh enough to compress the down, and if there is condensation then it falls at the foot end, on the synthetic insulation, which doesn't loose as much insulation capacity as down when wet. This gets me down to 0° Celsius.

Some hikes I take my Icebreaker wool set and the top bag, some I take the Micro Puff jacket too, and some nights I take everything- it depends on the circumstances. Some nights I wish I'd brought something I left behind becasue didn't think I'd need it- thems the breaks.

I hope this helps with the logic.

cheers

"if i need to take an extra jacket that i will not use other than for sleeping – then i might as well take another sleeping bag"

Correct. The jacket/halfbag combo is not for everyone. This system is great for my neck of the woods but maybe not for others. For weather where I wouldn't use the jacket, it is obviously heavier then if I just brought a sleeping bag/quilt.
It may be better to just get a quilt/overbag and bring the additional jacket when required for camp or to supplement your sleep system. You really have to crunch some numbers and see where and when you would save weight.
My system used to always involved a bag (~0*C @ 25 oz.) and a ~8oz fleece so it was a no brainer to get my AT and Skaha which comes in lighter then my bag alone and allows me to leave the fleece at home.
If I grabbed even the lightest sleep option, say an Arc Edge at ~13 oz with my fleece (or Down Inner) at 8 oz, I would still be about on par with my AT/SKAHA setup and be no where near as warm. The Skaha (I have 1 ounce overfill) is ridiculously warm.
I will add that I am addicted to this system, but it seems that full quilt/bag with a jacket is much more popular (I use that technique in the winter).
Hope that helps.