15 degree bag for women

Have you thought about keeping her existing bag and getting a light quilt to go over the two of you AS WELL? Sharing warmth like this is even more effective. Sue and I do just this in the snow.

Cheers

David,

Dam, you are full of qustions!

You trying to spend your money wisely and learn something??? :)

I have the Helium EQ with temps of 25 degrees in a tent.

My wife had a 20 degree Sierra Designs synth bag and was freezing…due to sleeping on an air matress, which acted like a heat sink.

We switched bags after I woke up to the sound of her chattering teeth.

Within 5 minutes of being in my bag, she was really toasty and warm. (Sleeping pad under my bag was Prolite 4 with a full length blue foam pad).

The temps on the Helium are true, in my opinion.

I have used the same bag down to 5 degrees F, laying a ton of clothing.

One point on the Helium is that it is very roomy inside and has been criticized for having extra dead space.

I like it in that it allowed me to layer up clothing without decreasing the loft of the down in the bag.

Stats, if you are curious: I am 5'6" and 135 lbs (back then) and my wife is 4'11" and 140 lbs.

I think that she will love the bag.

A Zero degree bag would be frying hot…if you slept naked, then maybe it would not fry you.

-Tony

I've compared these two bags by laying them out side by side at REI. The Women's Helium is loftier and thus will be warmer. But there is not a big difference.

If you buy the Helium, sell the subKilo to recoup some funds. The two bags are too similar to hang onto both.

If you don't want to switch bags the two suggestions above are excellent – a down quilt to boost warmth and a warm pad (or two pads – a thermarest and a closed cell.)

Plus all the usual cold weather suggestions: eat well, hydrate, wear a warm hat, down booties, a hot water bottle at her feet, the down jacket she's bringing for around camp insulation starts out as a pillow, but gets slept in as a jacket if need be.

Tony:
Yeah–I go on this question-asking frenzy every few weeks before I go on a trip…then I am silent for a few months. I have this crazy obsession with going lighter and more efficient every time I take a trip. BTW, we're exactly the same with regards to body type. I'm around 5'7" and between 135-140 lbs. If you think the Helium isn't too big for you, then I might just go for it. It's on sale right now online, too.

Kristin:
What do you suspect the real rating of the REI Sub Kilo 15 is? 25 degrees? I do plan on disposing of the Sub Kilo if we purchase the Helium. As far as I can tell, there aren't any other options that come close to the Helium. Western Mountaineering doesn't make women's bags, if I'm not mistaken.

All:
I think her being cold was a number of factors–the fact that we were both using Big Agnes Air Core pads without any underlying insulation, the fact that her feet were freezing, and the fact that the winds outside were freakin' 70 mph. I'm not kidding, the Guadalupe Mountains in west Texas are notorious for kicking up hurricane-gale-force winds. So…I'm thinking a GG Thinlight pad underneath the Air Core, a warmer sleeping bag, and down booties might change things this year.

I should mention that my wife is somewhat petite–5'2", 110 lbs. I should have mentioned before that she was wearing a heavyweight baselayer bottom, midweight baselayer top, a fleece, a down jacket with hood, a wool Peruvian style hat, liner gloves, North Face Denali fleece gloves, and thick Smartwool socks. Even then…she complained that her bladder "froze." I myself didn't get a whole lot of sleep that night…

David, I have no personal experience with feathered friends but there is a BPL article reviewing FF women’s bags very highly. probably more expensive but worth looking at.

David,

Questions are a good thing!

Why blow money on gear blindly when you can learn from others?

I love my Helium EQ, but I am trying to transition to using my 40F Marmot Atom bag for all of my 3 season needs by layering up clothing and using a bivy to enhance warmth.

That said, I find that the Helium it not too big for me. I am a back sleeper and I lay like a log.

When I bought mine a few years ago, there were no sales, so I paid the full $429.00 for mine and have no regrets.

The only issue that I would say that you have to look at is that it only has a 3/4 length zipper, unless something is new this year, which limits your ability to vent heat in warmer weather.

In my case, for warm weather, I just take my Atom.

My favorite things about the bag is the silky smooth interior fabric and how nicely the hood cinch works.

-Tony

Tony:
The Marmot Helium now has a full zip, which probably adds a couple of ounces of weight. Since my wife is a cold sleeper (most women are), I'm hoping the Marmot Helium would suffice year round (i.e., between 15-50 degrees). If she's hot, she can unzip the full zipper, right? I personally prefer to have two bags, a 30-40 degree one for temps above freezing and a 15 degree for temps below in order to save ounces, but I don't think my wife is going to let me justify the cost of having two bags for her.

David,

You and I are in the same boat, two sleeping bags to do the job.

I will say, in hind sight, I would not have gotten the Atom bag because it has sewn through baffles, which I have experienced cold spots in.

That is great that the Helium now has a full length zip to vent.

I am a cold sleeper, so the Helium would have worked almost year round, but I wanted the 40F bag to save weight and space and layer my clothing up to give me the extra warmth that I would need.

My wife has a 15 degree bag for her year round stuff and like you, I doubt she will get a second bag.

Let me know if you get the Helium and what the sales price is on it.

-Tony

Kristin:

Seeing that you have done some comparison of the two bags, do you happen to know the quality of down that REI uses in this line of sleeping bags, and how many ounces of down are actually present in the SubKilo 15? REI doesn't specify this on their website.

Edit: Just answered my own question. REI uses 750 fill down. Marmot uses 850 down.

Depending on when you do most of your hiking with your wife, would you consider getting her a summer weight bag, and using YOUR summer bag over the top/outside when you both go out in winter. It looks like there's enough size differential to fit her bag inside yours.

Apart from being a bit cheaper, esp with lots of summer bags on sale now, it would be lighter in summer, although a bit heavier in winter. Depending on your summer bag you could also experiment with using the outer bag as a quilt over the both of you, ala Roger.

Also, you mention adding a Thinlight UNDER the BAIAC. My experience is that a thin pad is much more effective OVER the BAIAC.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=16189

David,

I've been in the Guadalupe's in the wind and I can vouch that It is ferocious!

I got my wife, who is always a cold sleeper, a Marmot Helium and she loves it. She switched from an ancient REI down bag. (25 years old and weighed 4 lbs – the bag, not my wife :-) She has not been in temperatures below 30 F so I can't really comment on her comfort in the 20s.

Happy Trails,

-Mark

David, on an REI bag I have the number of ounces of down fill is right on the tag.

The Women's Marmot Helium according to the Marmot site has 19 ounces of down.

To make a comparison between different bags you obviously need to take into account the fill power as well. But you knew that already, hence your question above.

Kristin

Thanks for the tip. The REI Sub Kilo 15 has 16 oz of down. So…theoretically the Helium should be warmer, but I think the Sub Kilo is a little narrower (56" vs. 58" shoulder). But…with a down jacket on, maybe a little bigger is better?

As far as total weight, The REI bag weighs in around 1 lb, 12 oz. Helium is listed as 1 lb, 13 oz. I wonder if that's accurate…

BTW, I noticed that Mountain Hardwear describes their Phantom 15 women's as having 20 ounces (!) of down. However, I think this might be 800-fill, not 850 like in the Helium.

David, on the REI site the Women's subKilo is listed at 31 ounces. Does your wife's bag really weigh in at only 28? In that case it may be underfilled. Put it on the scale and double check.

Sleeping bags are not really rocket science. REI is telling us they put 16 ounces of down in the bag and the total weight is 31 ounces, which leaves 15 ounces for the shell and zipper. A bag using a different shell material may shave that down by a couple of ounces, let's say 13 ounces for the shell and zipper.

Working with those numbers for the Women's Helium gives us 19 ounces of down plus 13 ounces of shell totals 32 ounces or 2 pounds on the nose.

I did see the Phantom at REI as well. The lining material was a bit shiny, not as soft and didn't look (if one can tell by looking) as breathable as the other bags.

OK, now you all know that I spend the majority of my free time fondling sleeping bags at REI :)

Altrec has these on sale for ridiculously low prices! Now please don't buy up their stock.

Which is better? Phantom is narrower than the Helium (56" vs. 58" shoulder). Do you think it would be lighter? It only has a 2/3 length zipper while the Helium is full length. The bag has to be sufficiently warm for a smallish woman, 5'2"/110 lbs down to 15 degrees. She will be wearing a down parka and baselayers under that with hat and gloves.

Helium = 29 oz / 19 oz fill / 56" / full length zipper
Phantom 15 = 30 oz / 20 oz fill / 56" / 2/3 length zipper

Help me choose!

My wife would get the Helium if I were buying a new bag for her.

David,

My wife has the Phantom 15.

Between the two, I like my Helium more….the lining of the Helium is much, much softer and I think that the Phantom uses a bit of velcro for the securing the face area/hood cinch, where the helium does not.

The Phantom might be down proof.

I know for a fact that the Helium is not and I lose about 2 feathers per usage.

Get the Helium!!!

-Tony

Tony

Do you happen to have a digital scale? Can you get an actual weight on the Phantom? People keep saying that the Helium's listed weights are underestimated.

David,

Despite my geekiness, I do not have a digital scale.

Also, the weight of my wife's bag would not be accurate, since we seam sealed it to make it waterproof.

I also did the same thing with my Helium EQ….the EQ is heavier than the Helium by about 6 oz.

(I am very paranoid about water, having slept in a wet down bag before).

-Tony

No digital scale? Tell your wife to get you one for Christmas. :) Me–my digital scale at home (only) weighs to the nearest gram, but I have scales in my chem lab that read to the nearest hundredth of a gram. If you breathe on these scales, they register.

BTW, I recommend the scales from the US Post Office. They're only around $40 and have a big flat surface.

While Western Mountaineering doesn't make separate women's bags, they do make bags in "short" for 5'6" and under. I have an Ultralite Super, one of their narrowest bags, and there's plenty of room around my extremely ample hips. The bag works fine for me. I really like the draft collar, which I understand the Helium doesn't have. It made all the difference during frosty nights last summer. I too have decided to add a GG Thinlite pad to my insulated air mattress (POE), but I will put it on top rather than down below–it's the air in the mat that gets cold and that I want more insulation from. .

Being a cold sleeper, I suspect I'd want something a little warmer than the Ultralite for the high wind conditions you describe! It might be that a bivy would do the job better than a new sleeping bag. Or maybe a VBL liner inside the bag? Or maybe both? I know that's getting a bit heavy!

Mary,
Have you checked out the WM Versalite?

I'm a dealer for pretty much all these companies. Between the Helium and Phantom, I'd definitely get the Helium. Phantom series isn't filled as well, more thinly insulated spots. Hikinggranny's spot on with the WM Ultralite. Versalite is wider cut. Generally speaking, I'd always get a warmer bag then you think you'd need, especially if you're trying to keep your significant other interested and having fun. I'm a big fan of the WM Antelope–more importantly, so have two former girlfriends. FF does make great women's bags, too. Just don't try to cut it close with temp rating. Yeah, you might save a few ounces, certainly no more (and probably less) than 8 ounces–but at the risk of her not enjoying herself? Sometimes a few extra ounces makes a ton of sense. Cheers-