Super Stretch??

I like Allison's and David's explanation and this will keep me from having to buy a WM bag to provide Ben with the head to head comparison.:-)

Whew! That was a close one.

-Mark

P.S. Brett- No toes stepped on- I guess I came across a little strong in that post, but I'm not really upset.

>I think that to imply that MB is under filling and being less than honest about how warm their bags are is misinformed.

Although I didn't say this (I don't own an MB bag), I wouldn't be so sure of the quality control on MB bags. I have an "old style" down UL inner jacket (with the snaps down the front and no pockets), and a brand new hyped 800fp one. I am seriously disappointed with the new jacket. It has many baffles with virtually no fill in them, it's overall loft is significantly less than the old one, it is WAY shorter and no longer has a drop tail. Instead of being made in Japan like my old one, it is made in China, and the inner label says the fill is just 90:10 goose down:goose feather with no fill power mentioned. It is enough to put me off MB for life (or at least see if they still have Japanese made ones).

I also have the ss #2 and my comments would be:
I am slight build 6' 170# and the ss doesn' "hug" me much IMO. But it certainly does allow layering for me without decreasing the loft. Slept in this bag in a shelter this weekend, wooden loft style, temps at 7 am were 8 and 11 degrees respectively. Was also breezy, and the shelter had no door. I had a med weight 550 fill jacket and vest draped over my feet and chest area, zippers open, then the bag zipped. BA air core, and Ridgerest on top of BA. Wool socks, poly long johns, cotton t shirt, light fleece cap base layer. Toasty warm, I bet coulda gone down to 0. My bag does have different filled pockets, but I don't think it affects the temp rating, which I know is spot on with same base layer, can sleep in at 25, toasty warm. I like the bag, a happy camper here.

Allison,

Interesting. My bags are 3 or 4 years old and well made. Maybe they have radically changed their manufacturing process. They have been known for making a reasonably quality product heretofore. Have you contacted MB about the jacket?

Hmmm I guess that makes ME misinformed.;-) but I am being honest.

Anyone else having quality problems with MontBell?

-Mark

> the inner label says the fill is just 90:10 goose down:goose feather with no fill power mentioned.

Careful about interpreting this. It may not mean what you think.

There is always some feather in the down. Can't be avoided. Typically the vendors don't claim anything better than 10% accuracy. Under Australian law you can't label as 'pure down' something which has even 1-2% of feather. The law is an ass of course, but all the down users here got hit. They now have to label it '90/10'. Same stuff…

Pure down might be great in a sleeping bag, but that's horizontal. In a vertical section, like a jacket, a few % of feather might be a bonus. It would help maintain the loft and the fluffiness of the down.

Tricky …

Cheers

Roger, I know the labelling is not an accurate guide, but I have two jackets side-by-side. One was made in Japan several years ago. It is bigger all over (wider and longer), and has noticeably higher loft than the newer one made in China. Now they supposedly have the same weight of total fill, with the new jacket claiming to use higher lofting down than the old one. Add to that the uneven fill in the new jacket and THAT'S what makes me suspicious about down and manufacturing quality!

Based on the above observations, I am going resurrect my old jacket. It had a fight with a stove and the stove won, but I think I can patch it up.

Do any of you MB bag owners have labels that tell you where your bag was made?? It could be interesting to see if you also notice a difference depending on when and where it was made.

Hi Allison

> One was made in Japan several years ago. It is bigger all over (wider and longer), and has noticeably
> higher loft than the newer one made in China. Now they supposedly have the same weight of total fill,
> with the new jacket claiming to use higher lofting down than the old one. Add to that the uneven fill
> in the new jacket and THAT'S what makes me suspicious about down and manufacturing quality!

To be sure – once you factor in the difference in loft then there are real grounds for concern. Sounds bad.

> but I think I can patch it up.
A bit of Pertex Quantum or Microlite …

Cheers

Allison,

I just checked and both of my sleeping bags were made in China. My #3 bag is the older 750 fill I think and the #2 is the newer 800 fill. but like I said, I got them several years ago. I checked them over and both have good loft and no under filled sections that I can detect. The sewing and finish is top notch. But then we are not comparing apples to apples here. We need to find someone with a jacket for comparison.

-Mark

I bought two MB bags in 2004 – a UL Down Hugger No. 3 rated 32F and a Thermal Sheet (basically a hoodless bag rated at 50F). Even back then, both were made in China.

The No. 3 didn't seem to loft up much. I was actually worried about it on my first usage at Wind Rivers, WY. But it turned out to be spot on — I was comfy at 30F — unlike the bag that I replaced — a so-called 25F Kelty Light Year down bag that began to feel cold at 35F.

"Instead of being made in Japan like my old one, it is made in China"

I lived in Japan during the early 90s and again from 2000 until recently and I will claim to have introduced Mont Bell's UL gear to the English speaking world, since I posted about them at TLB long before they reopened in Boulder … but as far as I am aware they have always had their stuff made in China. Most Japanese companies off-shored in the 80's and 90's, in what they refer to as the hollowing out of Japanese manufacturing.

CORRECTION: I just checked my two MB Gore-Tex jackets (don't ask): the circa 2001 jacket (which I reviewed at TLB) says Made in Japan. The circa 2003 specifically-made-for-the-US-market one says Made in China. Maybe the US market stuff was being made in China – that would certainly minimise currency issues because Chinese factories bill in US dollars. My cycling jacket is made in China but all the Wickron fabric shirts and t-shirts are made in Japan. I'm genuinely surprised that they're still making anything in Japan.

Mont Bell's range is huge, and I love their stuff, but you do get variations in quality within the range and with the same product from year to year. A couple of years ago I was looking at the Alpine down vest (not available OS I think). They were very puffy but the fabrics had an odd dusty look – but now the fabrics are different. In contrast there are other Japanese manufacturers like Axis Quin and Nippn whose gear is always superb quality. My wife has an Axis Quin down vest that, in a direct comparison with the WM and Valandre equivalents (because there are stores in Japan that carry those brands side-by-side) I would rate as high or higher. But it was much, much cheaper.

Needless to say, most stuff available in Australia is complete rubbish (even the ACCC said so) and three times the price to boot.

There is a Japanese manufacturer who claims that although their down is nominally lower quality, because it's 95/5 it's actually higher loft.

Arapiles