Topic

Waist up layering system for winter

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Brian Barnes BPL Member
PostedDec 4, 2008 at 8:24 am

I’m trying to decide on a laying system for for a cross country ski trip in the early spring. We’ll be at 11,000 ft near Leadville, CO with the average lows around 10 (F, record -10) and the average daytime highs in the mid 20’s (F, record 55). Obviously, exertion will vary greatly (active skiing versus sitting at camp). Do you think the following would work well for the expected temps (I own everything below except the Montbell parka):

TORSO LAYERS (71.95oz total):
– 1st base layer – Icebreaker Bodyfit midweight 260 merino wool shirt (11.7oz)
– 1st insulation layer – Icebreaker Tech midweight 260 merino wool shirt (1/4 zip, thumb loops, 12.1oz)
– 2nd Insulation layer – Patagonia Micropuff pullover (size MEDIUM, 11oz)
– 3rd insulation layer – Montbell U.L.Down Inner Parka (size large, 7.4oz, 2.1oz fill)
– 4th insulation layer – Patagonia Micropuff pullover (size LARGE, 12.75oz)

SHELLS (17oz total): Wind shirt – GoLite Ether (3.2oz, hooded) and Rainjacket – Patagonia Rainshadow (13.8oz, hooded)

HEADWEAR (8.65oz total): Thin merino wool balaclava (1.65oz), thin merino wool beanie (1.65oz), OR gorilla balaclava (3.1oz), OR Swift Ball Cap (2.25oz)

HANDS (10.8oz total): 2 pair Polyproplyene glove liner (1.7oz), 2 pair Nitrile surgical gloves (1oz? vapor barrier), Powerstretch fleece glove (2.2oz), 200 wt Fleece Mitts (2oz?), OR Endeavor Paclite Mitts (3.9oz)

TOTAL WEIGHT 108.4oz (6.75 pounds)

I’m also considering sewing my own vapor barrier pants, l/s shirt, and socks. The specific questions I have are:

1) Do I need the second micropuff (I already own it but should I bring it)? If I can avoid have to buy a belay jacket (e.g. DAS Parka) it would be nice.

2) Do I have enough insulation for my head and neck (MB Down Parka + other headwear)?

PostedDec 4, 2008 at 11:40 am

I think you could drop the second micropuff or Montbell – take whichever combo is warmer.
You might find yourself wishing for a bit more if your hanging around camp at night. My recommendations would be a PRO 90 Balaclava and then maybe puffpants. If your just getting into your bag you should be good.
You might find that the OR balaclava does a better job on its own cutting the wind then keeping in heat.
No need for the DAS but might want to take a 100 weight fleece shirt you can ski in if temps get cold (when I used to cross country race all I wore in those temps was a wind suite, 100 weight fleece pants, a Cap 3 top and beanie.

PostedDec 4, 2008 at 11:45 am

I'd be tempted to leave the rain jacket at home in those temps, but it does add to your warmth.
X-country gloves? Something really breathable w/ a bit of warmth (50-100 weight) and a windproof back is nice to have. REinforced palms are nice if you can get them. Maybe 2 pairs and some puff mitts (MEC has a nice light pair)

Brian Barnes BPL Member
PostedDec 4, 2008 at 12:19 pm

Robert – Thanks for the info. Perhaps I should loose one of the wool shirts and take along my Patagonia R2 fleece jacket (15.45oz, I think this is similar to 100 wt fleece). This would increase the overall warmth of my system a bit and provide a warmer mid layer. With the fleece, I would feel better dropping the Montbell Parka (saves money too!), keeping the second Micropuff, and added a Cocoon PRO 90 balaclava. The above changes ended up not added or subtracting weight to the total system.

As for gloves, I think these will work well during the day:
Cloudveil Gloves They have windproof backs and leather palms.

I haven’t thought through a system for my legs yet… Initially I’m considering, synthetic boxer briefs, 100-200wt fleece pants, Patagonia micropuff or Montbell thermawrap pants, and something wind/waterproof/durable on top. I’m sure there are better option for ski pants (e.g. GoLite Paradox) but I haven’t researched them yet.

Brad Groves BPL Member
PostedDec 4, 2008 at 1:06 pm

Hey-
Ya know, we all have different metabolisms, but personally I think you'd be more comfortable in a lighter weight baselayer. I typically ski in those conditions with 150-190weight wool and the windshell. I think a lighter layer like that balanced with your 260 could be good.

Your R2 is roughly similar in warmth to a 200 weight fleece, FWIW–maybe a tad warmer. With the stuff you mentioned, don't think you'd need a DAS. One thing to consider, though: when you get into camp do you see yourself adding/dropping multiple layers? Or would you have a light poofy layer, then basically just add the final warm layers on all at once? If so, you might end up lighter/less bulky with one big warm parka.

Run Don't Walk gloves are great. Love 'em. My hands sweat horribly in them when I'm skiing, though. Could very well just be me. I'd think about wearing a pretty light liner for the actual skiing. You might want to add a warmer mitten to your kit; alternatively, I've found that muffs work really well around camp, and allow me to ditch other hand layers.

I like the PRO 90 balaclava for you. Your bottom layers sound pretty good. Cheers!
Brad

PostedDec 4, 2008 at 3:58 pm

yep, those were the ones I was thinking of. Just don't try to do anything with them! You should be able to wear them over your Cloudveils in camp.
R2 might be too hot unless you don't use the windshirt – I love my R1 or powerstreach for this.

Bottoms – how about 100 weight or powerstreach, nylon or wind pants and micropuffs? maybe a spare silkweight base-layer too. No need for the rain pants as long as you have a sit pad for in camp and don't say expect to run into a alpine storm up high.
Remember a pair of spare dry socks for in camp!

Sounds like your good and have fun!

PostedDec 4, 2008 at 4:01 pm

two tops is a great idea, lets you wear both or have one dry overnight as you wear a dry one in camp/your bag.
I do prefer Capline (cap3) for skiing though, as I always sweat up a storm and find even thin wool slow to dry and uncomfortable when wet. Rest of the time its great though. YMMV

John G BPL Member
PostedDec 5, 2008 at 5:54 pm

While x-country skiing in 20-35 degree weather, I wear a poly t-shirt, 100wt 1/4 zip fleece shirt, 200 wt fleece vest with high zip collar, windshirt, 100 wt fleece longjohns, windpants and a knit hat. When it's 20-25, my arms get a little cold when I stop for rest breaks, or to admire the scenery. When it's 0 to 20 degrees, I substitute a 200 wt fleece jacket for the 100 wt fleece shirt. It's a little hot from 15-20 though.
If it's really windy in either temp range, I add a lightweight balaclava and substitute a WP jacket for the windshirt.

When I'm in camp, I use a puffy jacket over my skiing layers, mostly adjusting my temp with my hat and the jacket's zipper. But sometimes, I will add or subtracting the vest or fleece jacket if necessary.

Note: I'm now in MD, but spent 20 years skiing & hiking in upstate NY. The insulation above was what I wore "up North". In MD, I just wear a T-shirt, vest & windshirt – and often have to take the vest off to prevent sweating.

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